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Old July 23rd, 2018, 08:18 AM   #1
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1098 starting issue - service shop confused as well

Hello all,

My 1098 refused to start about 6 weeks ago and to me it sounded like a sprag clutch issue. After many attempts and lots of rocking the bike back and forth, I got it to start, so I immediately took it to the service shop. They found a bent washer in the starter assembly and replaced that but the issue didn't go away. They replaced the starter motor and that didn't work either. Then they found that the clutch plates were all fused together and replaced that and they confirmed that the bike starts which it did when I went to pick it up. Hot start is pretty good though.


After a day of sitting in the garage, it won't start again. It sounds like the sprag clutch is bad but they confirmed that is OK. The service people were not really sure what is going on but did mention that valves might need readjusting but I just did that 2yrs ago (1200miles ago) as part of the 15K mile repair. I don't want to spend over $1K again to do that without knowing that is the issue for sure. Anyone has experienced this issue?

Here are two videos of the bike before the clutch change and after the clutch change in that order.



https://youtu.be/oLsLtGJoDjw


https://youtu.be/QP7RZXahB7I


Any help would be greatly appreciated. I rode the bike only 2 times this season and 6 weeks later the issue has not been resolved
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Old July 23rd, 2018, 03:59 PM   #2
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Take it to another Ducati dealership.
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Old July 24th, 2018, 03:00 AM   #3
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Hi Sath,

First try and determine if the problem is mechanical or electrical!

Rear wheel off the ground, remove the spark plugs, place the bike in gear and rotate the back wheel forward. This should happen without mechanical clunks and notches and the only sound should be the suck and blow from the cylinders.

Do this through all the gears (this also tests the clutch system). It will get easier to rotate the wheel the higher you go through the gears.

If at this point, there is no red flag, then you test for electrical!

Easiest way is to isolate the circuits (start, fuel & injection). Disconnect either the crank sensor or injector relay and hit the starter (don't know about the 1098 but on my 999 easiest to disconnect the crank sensor).

If the bike cranks properly then you have a sensor / electrical malfunction impacting the fuel/injection circuits.

If it still does the same as in the video, then you have a sensor / electrical malfunction impacting the starting circuits.

Good luck - Cheers
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Old July 24th, 2018, 06:32 AM   #4
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Take it to another Ducati dealership.

Sadly, there are only two dealerships in Michigan and one of them is about 2.5hrs away. They are the ones that did the 15K valve adjustment job and I am suspecting they may not have done a good job.
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Old July 24th, 2018, 06:44 AM   #5
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Hi Sath,

First try and determine if the problem is mechanical or electrical!

Rear wheel off the ground, remove the spark plugs, place the bike in gear and rotate the back wheel forward. This should happen without mechanical clunks and notches and the only sound should be the suck and blow from the cylinders.

Do this through all the gears (this also tests the clutch system). It will get easier to rotate the wheel the higher you go through the gears.

If at this point, there is no red flag, then you test for electrical!

Easiest way is to isolate the circuits (start, fuel & injection). Disconnect either the crank sensor or injector relay and hit the starter (don't know about the 1098 but on my 999 easiest to disconnect the crank sensor).

If the bike cranks properly then you have a sensor / electrical malfunction impacting the fuel/injection circuits.

If it still does the same as in the video, then you have a sensor / electrical malfunction impacting the starting circuits.

Good luck - Cheers

Thanks Johnny for the detailed instructions. I was hoping the experts who do this for a living would be able to figure out what is going on after holding on to the bike for 6 weeks. I will start looking at some of the things you suggested tonight. Last night when I got home, I tried starting the bike again and things took a turn for the worse. There was a screeching sound from the clutch assembly which the dealership just replaced and the bike refused to start.

https://youtu.be/ZZobYzAgYrc


I put it in gear and pulled the clutch in, nothing. It's like the clutch won't engage anymore. I rocked the bike back and forth in gear and pulled it out of the high compression point, tried starting again in neutral and it fired up after some stuttering. Pulled the clutch in, set it in first gear and I barely let go of the clutch and the bike stalled! Looks like they messed up the clutch now. Since rocking the bike back and forth seems to help, I am thinking this might actually be a mechanical issue. What are your thoughts?
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Old July 24th, 2018, 04:59 PM   #6
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Electrical.
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Old July 24th, 2018, 05:01 PM   #7
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Replace battery cables with Motolectric upgrades and it could also be the regulator/rectifier

Both of those are relatively inexpensive
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Old July 25th, 2018, 02:15 AM   #8
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Hi Sath,

As it started in Neutral then stalled as you released the clutch after placing into gear, you should check the following,

1. the clutch circuit is bled properly (no air bubbles)
2. the clutch lever friction point is adjusted properly
3. the clutch safety switch both works and is engaged by the lever

This is a clear issue so sort it first and then see if the original symptom remains or is sorted!

Cheers
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Old July 25th, 2018, 05:20 AM   #9
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Ah! Neutral safety switch. I've had that issue. Sucks when on the grid and you stall your bike...going into turn 1 in dead last isn't fun!
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Old July 25th, 2018, 06:25 AM   #10
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Replace battery cables with Motolectric upgrades and it could also be the regulator/rectifier

Both of those are relatively inexpensive

Thanks Johnny. If I run wires from a spare battery to the starter, maybe that will help rule out bad battery cables?



If the battery is charged up does it matter if the rectifier is bad during startup?
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Old July 25th, 2018, 06:34 AM   #11
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Hi Sath,

As it started in Neutral then stalled as you released the clutch after placing into gear, you should check the following,

1. the clutch circuit is bled properly (no air bubbles)
2. the clutch lever friction point is adjusted properly
3. the clutch safety switch both works and is engaged by the lever

This is a clear issue so sort it first and then see if the original symptom remains or is sorted!

Cheers

You are right, I need to fix this first before I look at anything else.



I am still wondering why the shop replaced the clutch (not the starter clutch the transmission clutch) to resolve the starting problem.



Thanks again. Cheers.
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Old July 25th, 2018, 10:21 AM   #12
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Thanks Johnny. If I run wires from a spare battery to the starter, maybe that will help rule out bad battery cables?



If the battery is charged up does it matter if the rectifier is bad during startup?
Just make sure to use an actual motorcycle battery. Too many horror stories from jump starts, etc.

The rectifier will absolutely mess up the starting if it's bad.

When attempting to start, does the back light on the dashboard work? Does the dash flicker?
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Old July 25th, 2018, 10:27 AM   #13
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>>Just make sure to use an actual motorcycle battery. Too many horror stories from jump starts, etc.
I have jump started the bike many times in the past (the Duc has not been too kind me) - maybe I already damaged something and this is just a latent failure.

>>When attempting to start, does the back light on the dashboard work? Does the dash flicker?
All that seems Ok. I will put a meter on the battery and watch the voltage during cranking next time.
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Old July 26th, 2018, 07:54 AM   #14
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Just make sure to use an actual motorcycle battery. Too many horror stories from jump starts, etc.

The rectifier will absolutely mess up the starting if it's bad.

When attempting to start, does the back light on the dashboard work? Does the dash flicker?

Yesterday I had some time to look into this and on first power up, the dash read 12.4 volts and the meter also read the same. I hit the starter button and the voltage dropped to "Lo" and everything was flashing. Gahhhh! I had only a trickle charger with me, so I had to jump the battery and tried starting - voila, it started fine. Voltage was very stable after the bike was running which seems to indicate that the rectifier is ok.

Killed the engine, started again and it was ok. Let the bike cool down for a bit, the bike wont start again - same behavior as before. Jumped it and it started. When the bike is cranking, the voltage is all over the place but when the bike is running, it is stable. After a few failed start attempts, battery voltage is down to 11.4V.

Clutch seems to have a lot of air bubbles. Getting better the more I work with it. If I am very gentle, I can get the bike to move without stalling. If I try starting the bike in gear with clutch pulled in, the bike actually moves.

The bike is possessed!
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Old July 26th, 2018, 02:05 PM   #15
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So the battery is farked and sounds like a collapsed cell.

Job one
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