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Old May 9th, 2009, 06:06 AM   #46
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mrinflux, don't want to sound like a prick but it's not a matter of it being "simple" by just putting a full Termi system on, most of us just don't have that kind of scratch laying around. Most people bust their ass to get up enough money to buy their dream bike only to find out that you have to drop another 2-3K just to keep it from stalling, I don't think so. When we buy these bikes we all know there will be added expense in maintenance but NOT added expense in just getting the damn things to stay running under normal conditions. I love my bike and will work through this problem with the dealer and the whole Ducati team but at the same time I think we are all justified with our rants about this problem.
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Old May 9th, 2009, 06:28 AM   #47
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justified ranting

Quote:
Originally Posted by muirheid View Post
mrinflux, don't want to sound like a prick but it's not a matter of it being "simple" by just putting a full Termi system on, most of us just don't have that kind of scratch laying around. Most people bust their ass to get up enough money to buy their dream bike only to find out that you have to drop another 2-3K just to keep it from stalling, I don't think so. When we buy these bikes we all know there will be added expense in maintenance but NOT added expense in just getting the damn things to stay running under normal conditions. I love my bike and will work through this problem with the dealer and the whole Ducati team but at the same time I think we are all justified with our rants about this problem.
muirhead,

Yes, you're absolutely right. You guys are all justified in your ranting. The bike should run perfectly with the OEM exhaust, blah, blah, blah.

Actually, you guys are all missing the point. Instead of complaining that Ducati sold you a bike that doesn't run right as delivered, you should be thanking Ducati for figuring out a creative way around Federal and State noise and emission regs.

When you buy a new Ducati, you need to factor the cost of a Full Termi System into the equation. It is that simple. If you're not ready for that, you're not ready for a Ducati.

Ask yourself this: Is it more important to you to be, "right," about this while your bike sits at the dealership all summer as DNA and your dealer try to figure out some half-assed fueling compromise that will never really work right, or would you rather be riding?

You just shelled out a bunch of scratch for one of the best bikes in the world. Stop your bitchin' and shell out another couple of grand for the rest of your bike, and start enjoying it! Or, if you just can't deal with the fact that Ducati won't acknowledge that you're, "right," about this, then sell your new Ducati and buy that GSXR you guys are always talkin' about. You'll be happier for it. At least that'll run just fine with the OEM exhaust.

Whatever. Knock yourself out. Be right. Rant on. I'm goin' riding!

Elton
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Old May 9th, 2009, 07:04 AM   #48
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mrinflux

who are you a salesman for Termignoni or Suzuki because you sure are pushing both pretty hard.
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Old May 9th, 2009, 07:11 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrinflux View Post
Actually, you guys are all missing the point. Instead of complaining that Ducati sold you a bike that doesn't run right as delivered, you should be thanking Ducati for figuring out a creative way around Federal and State noise and emission regs.

When you buy a new Ducati, you need to factor the cost of a fully Termi system into the equation. It is that simple. If you're not ready for that, you're not ready for a Ducati.
Well...since we actually had this discussion about 1.5 years ago already, there is not really a need to go into that again....BUT, I have to say the above is a very narrow (and probably naive) view of things in my mind.

You are certainly allowed your own opinion but as I told you 1.5 years ago...if that is the case, they should price the bike 3K higher and deliver the Termis in a box with the bike. Again...no matter how much you defend Ducati for their creative way around Federal and State noise end emission regs (which by the way has been figured out by every other Motorcycle company for years), there is a problem. And the problem is with Ducati not with any government.

Again...a product that is being advertised and sold needs to perform as advertised right out of the box. If not, this is bad sales tactic....first I give them a little taste....and when they are hooked I let them pay $$$ for more....somehow sounds familiar to other not so nice things.

As I said....we don't need to reiterate the whole discussion, you have any right for you opinion and view of things, you go ride, I will go ride as well but at the same time do not try to defend something that is not right in the first place.

All I am asking is to reconsider before you post your sarcastic and ironic comments about how easy the fix is and that everyone should stop whining.
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Old May 9th, 2009, 07:25 AM   #50
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If your idle is 1250 that's too low. Should be 1550 to 1600 per DNA.

The reason for raising the idle is the 12.5/1 compression and a hot engine create too much cylinder pressure for the amount of inertia generated by the rotating mass of the internals to get the piston over the hump on the compression stroke when at idle.
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Old May 9th, 2009, 07:51 AM   #51
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Hey

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrinflux View Post
muirhead,

Yes, you're absolutely right. You guys are all justified in your ranting. The bike should run perfectly with the OEM exhaust, blah, blah, blah.

Actually, you guys are all missing the point. Instead of complaining that Ducati sold you a bike that doesn't run right as delivered, you should be thanking Ducati for figuring out a creative way around Federal and State noise and emission regs.

When you buy a new Ducati, you need to factor the cost of a fully Termi system into the equation. It is that simple. If you're not ready for that, you're not ready for a Ducati.

Ask yourself this: Is it more important to you to be, "right," about this while your bike sits at the dealership all summer as DNA and your dealer try to figure out some half-assed fueling compromise that will never really work right, or would you rather be riding?

You just shelled out a bunch of scratch for one of the best bikes in the world. Stop your bitchin' and shell out another couple of grand for the rest of your bike, and start enjoying it! Or, if you just can't deal with the fact that Ducati won't aknowledge that you're, "right," about this, then sell your new Ducati and buy that GSXR you guys are always talkin' about. You'll be happier for it. At least that'll run just fine with the OEM exhaust.

Whatever. Knock yourself out. Be right. Rant on. I'm goin' riding!

Elton
I don't know guys. Elton, You know I agree with you on most things but I feel like these guys are right....this bike SHOULD run and run RIGHT when it comes in to this country. I also disagree that EVERY one of these bikes has to have a full Termi system to run right.

I'm almost afraid to say it but My 1098 has run what I consider "Flawlessly" since I bought it (save the clutch screech) and it still has the stock cans on it.

The unfortunate part of this is that MOST people, before buying their first Ducati Superbike, don't go to the forums and read opinions like yours. That EVERY Ducati Superbike MUST have an additional (Never mind 2-3K) $4,000 - $5000 in a FULL exhaust and ECU put on it for it to run correctly. I have to believe that if most people did that Ducati's US sales would drop pretty significantly as not everyone has your financial resources. Yes, YOU can say "Then simply don't buy one if you don't have an extra $5000 in your pocket you don't know what to do with". Most people simply do not have that kind of $$$$ just hanging around these days and MANY people still want this bike.

The product is sold as a complete product and represented as a product that will perform "Out of the box" in a way that will satisfy the purchasers expectations. It should run and run well out of the box. If not, advertise it as what you say it is. A product out of the box that will not run to its expectations until the purchaser makes another significant monetary investment (somewhere around another 25% OVER the purchase price).

I hope you ARE out riding. I would give just about ANYTHING to be able to push my bike out of the dining room and go for a ride but unfortunately THAT ain't happening any time soon so YOU and my other Ducati enthusiast friends have to put on some extra miles to make up for my absence. PLEASE!!



Enjoy your ride Elton. I think on this one you and i are just going to have to agree to disagree.

Peace
Peewee

I also do not agree that a full Termi system, proper installation and tuning is the silver bullet to the stalling problem. I'm not POSITIVE but I think I've read several posts here that have stated that they have done this and the stalling was still an issue. I suppose that you could respond "Then the tech just didn't know what he/she was doing" to that but then you could argue that a good Tech should be able to make this bike run perfectly with the stock cans as well.

Just one man's humble opinion.

There is always more than ONE answer to any given problem.

P.S. There is a "C" in Acknowledgment. The only way I know is because spell check tells me so. Not because I'm smart enough to spell it correctly myself. I expect more from you. No one EVER expected very much from ME!!!
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Old May 9th, 2009, 09:47 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by peewee1703 View Post
I don't know guys. Elton, You know I agree with you on most things but I feel like these guys are right....this bike SHOULD run and run RIGHT when it comes in to this country. I also disagree that EVERY one of these bikes has to have a full Termi system to run right.

+1

Not singling out Elton either but I’m always astounded with the excuses people come up with to vindicate Ducati for not getting it right.

Really, what’s the difference between a Ducati engine and any other high compression 4 stroke petrol engine except a wacky valve actuating system. Last I looked that was pretty much the only difference between Ducati and any Jap V twin.

Every other bike in the world has to conform to the same emission standards and all come with the same restrictive exhausts and none of them need ECU changes or sports exhaust systems to run correctly.

Any vehicle should run correctly as delivered. My 1098 ran perfectly in stock trim. That says to me that stalling bikes are faulty.

Well that’s my 2 cents worth anyway.

Last edited by Rosco; May 9th, 2009 at 09:50 AM.
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Old May 9th, 2009, 10:09 AM   #53
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Mine had Termis and race ECU day one and still stalled like a bas%ard.....

As have many other people's who have had this problem.

So stop bleating please. Especially as you dont seem to have been aflicted by the problem - so your "solution" is nothing more than guesswork - re-enforced by the fact that you are actually at odds with the fact that many people have had this problem despite your suggestion.

The stalling bikes are clearly faulty and Ducati do seem to be able to fix it - but it isn't an ideal situation, and if you have one that stalls - it's fairly frustrating so please don't patronise people that are struggling - it's quite rude in my opinion.

Ducati sorted mine out, most likely by changing something quite delicate to adjust. But the rules apply to all manufacturers and they all manage. So, it's a bit frustrating.

Especially as even a benchmark Duke is about 30% more expensive than it's nearest comp......
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Old May 9th, 2009, 11:43 AM   #54
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I took a 1098 and an 848 for a pretty long test ride before getting my 1098S back in July '08. Both stock. No stalling issues. My 1098S has the Termi cans/ECU 1/2 system from Day 1, also no stalling issues.

These bikes DO run fine in a stock condition or without the whole Termi System. Also, from the letter Muirhead posted, it looks like Ducati NA will work with dealerships and owners who are having stalling issues and they too perceive it to be a problem.

To those afflicted, it's not fun to buy a premium bike and have issues out the gate. I have a 2005 K1200S BMW which has inconsistent fueling and very clunky shifting and some other owners also missed these gremlins. BMW admitted no problems but just released the K1300S which "solved" the problems they admitted existed in the K1200S upon release of the new bike. Being a paying beta tester sucked.
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Old May 9th, 2009, 12:25 PM   #55
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Oh Yeah

One other thing. Don't mistake all of my opinions on this matter to mean that I wouldn't LOVE to put a full Termi system on my 1098. There are just a LOT of other things right now that I HAVE to spend the $$$$ on. I, unfortunately, right now, do not have an unlimited disposable income. If I did, my bike would have had the full system on it the day it left the showroom. For the ROAR that Termi's give this bike. For the LOOK that Termi's give this bike. For the extra POWER the Termi's give this bike. NOT because I felt the manufacturer of my dream bike put an exhaust on it stock, that would give it a propensity to stall when I least expected it. I'm not sure I would have bought the bike if I thought that.

My bike may not be all it CAN be because it doesn't have a full Termi system on it right now. It may not be as good as many of the bikes that people on this forum ride everyday. But it is MY bike! MY Ducati, that I waited for 40 years to own. I LOVE my Ducati 1098 even though it doesn't have a full system on it. To me, it runs beautifully and it feels like HEAVEN between my knees every time I ride it!!

I just want to get well enough to RIDE my 1098. Full Termi's or not. I just want to RIDE!!!
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Old May 9th, 2009, 01:08 PM   #56
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peewee 1703

your previous 2 post pretty much sum up everything I feel about the situation; I would hate to get a full system on my bike only to get down the road a couple miles and it stalls. When I am able to get the full system it will be for the performance, looks and oh yes that beautiful sound. As for the stalling, I have to believe that it can be corrected on a stock setup. DNA did contact me again and they are very eager to get this resolved, just waiting my turn at the dealer to get in; our local one was boght out by HD dealer. I hope everyone can get out and enjoy some riding even if your bike stalls.
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Old May 9th, 2009, 03:59 PM   #57

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Yep i dont think they all have stalling issues, ive had mine for a year and it has never stalled, and it's bone stock. I have a different problem, everytime i wash the thing i get an error message, 16.0 pump error and it wont start til it dries. Kinda sux, taking care of that soon though.
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Old May 9th, 2009, 06:06 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by mrinflux View Post
muirhead,

Yes, you're absolutely right. You guys are all justified in your ranting. The bike should run perfectly with the OEM exhaust, blah, blah, blah.

Actually, you guys are all missing the point. Instead of complaining that Ducati sold you a bike that doesn't run right as delivered, you should be thanking Ducati for figuring out a creative way around Federal and State noise and emission regs.

When you buy a new Ducati, you need to factor the cost of a Full Termi System into the equation. It is that simple. If you're not ready for that, you're not ready for a Ducati.

Ask yourself this: Is it more important to you to be, "right," about this while your bike sits at the dealership all summer as DNA and your dealer try to figure out some half-assed fueling compromise that will never really work right, or would you rather be riding?

You just shelled out a bunch of scratch for one of the best bikes in the world. Stop your bitchin' and shell out another couple of grand for the rest of your bike, and start enjoying it! Or, if you just can't deal with the fact that Ducati won't aknowledge that you're, "right," about this, then sell your new Ducati and buy that GSXR you guys are always talkin' about. You'll be happier for it. At least that'll run just fine with the OEM exhaust.

Whatever. Knock yourself out. Be right. Rant on. I'm goin' riding!

Elton
Man!! For a minute I thought that I was accidentally on the Harley forum ! This is EXACTLY the same stuff they talk about there.

I guess I'm in the "These expensive bikes should run right when you buy 'em" camp.

IMHO, it doesn't matter whether you can afford pricey aftermarket equipment or not - a high-dollar item like this should work right out of the box. I just can NOT see how that could be considered to be an unreasonable expectation or demand.

Good luck,

John
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Old May 9th, 2009, 06:28 PM   #59
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You guys EVER for ONCE think that it might actually be down to dealer setup? Maybe that amazing deal you got wasn't such a good deal after all?

Maybe, when you said, "I'm not going to pay for setup" you didn't, because there wasn't any?

just a thought.

By the way, I agree with Elton.
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Old May 9th, 2009, 08:39 PM   #60
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You guys EVER for ONCE think that it might actually be down to dealer setup? Maybe that amazing deal you got wasn't such a good deal after all?

Maybe, when you said, "I'm not going to pay for setup" you didn't, because there wasn't any?

just a thought.

By the way, I agree with Elton.

Not having a go at you but what do you mean by dealer setup?

I don't understand what pre delivery has got to do with cronic stalling issues.

Are you saying that Duc's come out of the factory randomly faulty and dealers should give them a full tune up before they leave the shop to just to ensure they run right?
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