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Old May 10th, 2009, 12:18 PM   #76
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mrinflux,

I know you are a huge proponent of full systems, but what are your thoughts on the slip on termis and DP ecu setup? I'm sure it won't hold a candle to a full system etc in terms of how much better the bike with breath etc. but should it still not improve things significantly over the stock unit in this regard?

I fitted my 1098s with just the slipons thinking that this would be sufficient. To be completely honest my main motivation for doing so was sound, looks, and my understanding that the accompanying ecu would make the bike run better...

I personally agree with mrinflux in some respects. I interpret what he is saying as meaning "some times the good things in life can take a little work"....basically...

Just because someone holds some principle in there mind that says a product should behave a certain way for a certain amount of money does not make it fact. These things are what they are....exotic superbikes that can be tempermental, and ones that need to meet strict emmisions standards under which they are not designed to operate optimally. I totally get what mrinflux is saying in this regard folks.

Nobody has to like the fact that the exotic superbike they just purchased will run better when setup better. There's all kinds of things in life we don't like or want to accept. Death and taxes come to mind.

Anyway, this is a tough one. I understand why people are pissed when their base unit acts up etc. but I think this is one of those types of things that people have to deal with...just like other realities...

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Old May 10th, 2009, 12:31 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbone View Post
Just because someone holds some principle in there mind that says a product should behave a certain way for a certain amount of money does not make it fact. These things are what they are....exotic superbikes that can be tempermental, and ones that need to meet strict emmisions standards under which they are not designed to operate optimally. I totally get what mrinflux is saying in this regard folks.

Nobody has to like the fact that the exotic superbike they just purchased will run better when setup better. There's all kinds of things in life we don't like or want to accept. Death and taxes come to mind.

Anyway, this is a tough one. I understand why people are pissed when their base unit acts up etc. but I think this is one of those types of things that people have to deal with...just like other realities...
The issue is not whether "exotic" bikes are running better if money is thrown at them....this is essentially true for every motorcycle. The issue is rather that people can expect to have a new motorcycle to work in the environment it was designed and built for without having the need to add additional equipment.

And the answer to the original issue is neither "Well go buy a Japanese instead" nor "Buy the Termi". My 1098 has been running flawlessly with the stock exhaust...granted for a very short amount of time until I performed a crash test with it. There are many others that do the exact same thing. So...it looks rather like a setup issue and thus comes back to the dealer/technician.

Again...I do not argue that the Ducati performs better when additional equipment such as the Termi is added nonetheless, this is not the issue is the first place - at least not in this thread. And even if you strongly believe in this....there is a way of providing your opinion without being 3 years old and without insulting or disrespecting people. But then again...it is the internet...so I should expect both I guess...
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Old May 10th, 2009, 12:31 PM   #78
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Although I agree with Elton to a point, it's not the complete answer. There's a lot of bad ECU's and improperly timed or cammed bikes that made it out of the factory. I think the bikes are FAR MORE LIKELY to stall with a more restrictive exhaust, but I'd counter Elton with isn't having a freer flowing exhaust just masking a potentially borderline ECU or cam set up?

The only thing I know of with the dealer set up is resetting the TPS seems to help some of the stalling issues, but not many that I've seen.
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Old May 10th, 2009, 02:45 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASM View Post
The issue is not whether "exotic" bikes are running better if money is thrown at them....this is essentially true for every motorcycle. The issue is rather that people can expect to have a new motorcycle to work in the environment it was designed and built for without having the need to add additional equipment.

And the answer to the original issue is neither "Well go buy a Japanese instead" nor "Buy the Termi". My 1098 has been running flawlessly with the stock exhaust...granted for a very short amount of time until I performed a crash test with it. There are many others that do the exact same thing. So...it looks rather like a setup issue and thus comes back to the dealer/technician.

Again...I do not argue that the Ducati performs better when additional equipment such as the Termi is added nonetheless, this is not the issue is the first place - at least not in this thread. And even if you strongly believe in this....there is a way of providing your opinion without being 3 years old and without insulting or disrespecting people. But then again...it is the internet...so I should expect both I guess...
Did I say something disrespectful?

Cheers
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Old May 10th, 2009, 05:31 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Dbone View Post
Did I say something disrespectful?
My response was rather meant more general....I just happened to quote you...I certainly apologize if I gave the impression that I was solely talking to you...
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Old May 11th, 2009, 02:14 AM   #81
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Color and stalling

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozducati View Post
Hey Elton, my 1098s never stalled, and my 1198s hasn't stalled so far either.... must be because of the colour I am thinking.... you do know Red is the new Black?
Hey oz,

Yeah, I heard that! Red is the new Black! And, Red never stalls and it"s the fastest color. (Tycho recently proved this in the, "My 600 goes 200mph!," thread!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbone View Post
I know you are a huge proponent of full systems, but what are your thoughts on the slip on termis and DP ecu setup? I'm sure it won't hold a candle to a full system etc in terms of how much better the bike with breath etc. but shouldn't it still improve things significantly over the stock unit in this regard?
Dbone,

Yes, so long as the slip-ons remove the catalytic converter, (which most do), they significantly improve aspiration. The cat is extremely restrictive! If the slip-ons don't remove the cat, aspiration is improved a bit, but not much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbone View Post
Just because someone holds some principle in their mind that says a product should behave a certain way for a certain amount of money does not make it fact. These things are what they are....exotic superbikes that can be tempermental, and ones that need to meet strict emmisions standards under which they are not designed to operate optimally. Nobody has to like the fact that the exotic superbike they just purchased will run better when setup better. I understand why people are pissed when their base unit acts up, but this is one of those things that people have to deal with.
Exactly! Thanks for putting it so clearly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASM View Post
My 1098 has been running flawlessly with the stock exhaust...granted for a very short amount of time until I performed a crash test with it. There are many others that do the exact same thing. So...it looks rather like a setup issue and thus comes back to the dealer/technician.
Andrea,

Just because your bike didn't stall before you crashed it doesn't mean it was running, "flawlessly." In fact, your bike was running like crap; you just don't know it. It was running too hot, too lean, and it was starving for fuel. And if you ever decide to let go of your investment in being, "right," about how new products should, "perform as advertised, out of the box," and put the proper exhaust on it; (the exhaust its meant to have; not the throw away crap designed to get the bike through customs!), you'll see what I'm talking about. And I'm not talking about the enhanced sound, (which is great!), or the 8% percent horsepower gain, (which is even greater!!). I'm talking about a smoother, cooler running engine, aspirating properly, running the way it was designed to run.

Your bike wasn't stalling. Excellent. But running, "flawlessly?" No way. In fact, your bike was suffocating. It was gasping for air. And because it's so damned powerful, it managed to carry on without stalling. But let it breathe properly and you'll discover a whole new motorcycle. One you didn't even know you had.

In fact, IMO, this discussion is a bit silly. One need only lay the OEM exhaust system next to the Termi Full System and compare them, side by side, to realize that there is no way your engine could run, "flawlessly," with the OEM exhaust on it.

Q - So why did your bone-stock 1098s not stall while others do?

A - Rider style. If your engine isn't aspirating properly, (like all the bikes running OEM exhausts), then your bike will be more prone to stall when idling and/or when running hot. So those of you running OEM exhausts in traffic, in the city, in stop-and-go traffic, will be the ones experiencing stalls. And those of you riding the bike harder, faster, out on roads it was designed to be ridden on, won't have stalls. Your bike won't be running, "flawlessly," but it'll muscle through.

So, dealer set-up is critical, but no amount of dealer set-up will make your stock 1098 run, "flawlessly." That's a mechanical impossibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raptuous View Post
There's a lot of bad ECU's and improperly timed or cammed bikes that made it out of the factory. I think the bikes are FAR MORE LIKELY to stall with a more restrictive exhaust, but I'd counter Elton with isn't having a freer flowing exhaust just masking a potentially borderline ECU or cam set up?
raptuous,

I don't know what constitutes, "a lot," but there certainly have been some brand new 1098s with improperly degreed cams. Additionally, in a nod to all the, "ASMs," out there who just wouldn't let this whole, "I paid a zillion dollars for my bike and it should run perfectly as delivered!," thing go, there was a recall on all the early 1098s to reflash the ECUs with a map that attempted to help the 1098 not stall with the OEM exhaust. This was a compromise at best, and will never really solve the problem, but part of running a business is catering to ASM's way of thinking.

Regardless of what the exact numbers are, one thing is certain: If your bike is one of the bikes that came from the factory with bad cams, that's one too many. But I don't think that putting a free-flowing exhaust would mask cam problems, (or for that matter, a bad map problem). This is why set-up is so important. If your tech is setting up your 1098 w/ a dyno, there's no way he/she is gonna miss cam and/or mapping issues.

Just my opinion.

Elton
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Last edited by mrinflux; May 11th, 2009 at 11:14 AM.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 07:39 PM   #82
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same problem!

I am writing for my husband, but his 1098S has a stalling issue as well. It works great at speed, but in traffic, it just stalls out and the engine will barely crank. After a while it will restart, or if there is somewhere to give it a push start it will fire up as long as you can get your speed up again. Looking for a possible problem with the cooling system. Maybe the fans aren't working or the temperature sensor and thermostat are acting up. Looking for a solution. Love the bike, hate the problem. Sure doesn't happen with the 900 he has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duc998 View Post
Well, here it is....I had the 2nd recall (voltage regulator this time) done and the bike stalled again. My bike was running 190 degrees but that shouldn't matter. I have the temignoni slip ons with a remap ecu, but who knows? I immediately tried to restart but would hardly turn over. I turned it off and waited a few minutes and it refired again?? I have had Ducatis for 7 years but this is getting old!
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Old September 14th, 2010, 10:11 PM   #83
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just modifed my exh on the stock 848. didnt have this prob untill i cored them out, now, low and behold i do. going to try a PC5. poss more fuel. sucks
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