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Old March 7th, 2009, 09:40 AM   #1

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Urgent Help needed re: running temps

(edited to convert F to C for everyone)

If you own a 1098 I believe there is a flaw that needs to be rectified. Read this thread carefully (I know it's a lot of info), ride your bike on the highway with an ambient temp of about 70F (21C) or COLDER (so you can get your bikes 'running temp') and post it up.


I thought I was alone in having oddly LOW water temps. Here's some food for thought: The 1098 goes from cold map (too rich to help with cold running/starting) to warm map at 160F (71C). I've removed the thermostat and it opens EXACTLY at 160f (71C) as measured with a contact thermometer and infrared.


This means that on the highway your bike should warm up 160f (71C) (warm map) and STAY there. Personally, if I take an extended run on the highway my bike balances at 138F (59C). IMO this is WAY too cold. This means my bike is running in cold map and too much fuel is being dumped into the cylinders. I get about 32mpg doing 80mph on the highway which is low but not horribly so.

However, everyone should read up a bit on the 1997 TL1000S which also had cooling problems similar (arguably worse) than what our 1098's have. The TLS notoriously ran cold - resulting in fouled plugs, fuel in oil, potential ring damage, potential cylinder wall groove damage, potential bearing damage. Basically it thins out your oil. On a TLS you can actually smell fuel in the oil if you having fixed the cooling issues.


I wonder what Ducati's take is on this. My dealer said it's absolutely normal, they replaced my temp sensor (which seems to read about the same imo) and said that's really all that they can do - even if it isn't correct that it's how Ducati sets up the bikes.

Now, personally, I believe that either ALL of the temp sensors are bad (we are all having this problem, correct?) OR Ducati measures the coolant at the wrong place, OR the ecu is programmed to alter the temp or something.


I wonder what the next step is - a hotter thermostat would fix/help the problem but also cause the bike to run a bit warmer (I would be fine with this as I monitor temps closely). On my TL I was able to find an aftermarket thermostat but the 1098 seems to be a bit of a specialty job. Another alternative would be to wire in a resistor into the temp sensor where you could flip a switch, or maybe somehow add ~3% to the value? How does this affect fuel mapping?


No matter what, it makes me nervous. I plan on keeping my bike for a long time, and currently it's a PITA because I don't ride it if it's too cold to keep it above 160f.

My bike was about 18k. If I keep it for 18k miles then it's costing me $1 a mile.


That means that a 300 mile saturday ride is costing $300. Commute 30 miles a day to work? $30. (edit: explanation of math is in a later post.)

At these prices I want my bike to last as LONG as possible, and I'd like to have some of these questions answered. I wonder if there's a way to get in touch with Ducati of North America and get an answer on this. My dealer is helpful but I believe they're right - the bike is running as intended from Ducati.



EDIT!!!!

Check near page 6 of this thread - THERE IS A PARTIAL FIX! Richard H. has discovered that the plastic housing which the thermostat screws into covers the thermostat too much, only allowing the flat tip of the sensor to contact the coolant. We have both dremeled a bit of material away and seen NOTICABLY improved heating/cooling characteristics. It hasn't quite fixed my highway overcooling issues but it has certainly helped.

I have also discovered a replacement thermostat that may help. It is .75cm longer and a better brand than what Ducati puts on the 1098. I am still doing some testing to ensure it will read the proper temps, so I do not recommend trying until further notice.

Edit 2!!!!!!!

http://www.ducatispot.com/forums/sho...193#post195193

I also discovered that the OE temp sensor reads about 10F TOO COLD as compared to a better quality Napa part (which also has a slightly longer probe)

Last edited by JacobWM; July 10th, 2009 at 05:46 PM. Reason: celsius stuff
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Old March 7th, 2009, 09:41 AM   #2

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Ok, I'll make the first post:

If it's 70F (21C) outside or lower and I'm on the highway (riding long enough for temps to stabilize, no stop and go, etc - we're testing the cooling system here) my bike reads 138F (59C).

Last edited by JacobWM; March 9th, 2009 at 07:08 PM. Reason: celsius
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Old March 7th, 2009, 09:58 AM   #3
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You'll have to work with me with temps in C. It's the 21st century after all, even on planet America.
Ha ha, sorry I'm at work and its half past 3 in the morning and I'm getting tired.

During winter where I am when air temps were anywhere between -8 and 15 odd degrees, it would be rare for me to get water temps above 65.

Granted that did seem a little low and I did wonder about the fuelling temp offset. But then I thought, maybe going a little ritch with nice cold air is not a bad thing.

I think most people will tell the same story.

One thing I will say, don't go a hotter thermostat (if one is available). I think it would be a bad idea considering how quickly these things heat up at low speeds.

As a comparo the DB7 has the same engine and radiator but different plumbing, thermostat and temp sensor in a different position. The temps behave prety much the same with the exception of heating up slightly faster in traffic than the Duc because of the radiator being mounted slightly higher effecting airflow at lower speeds.

I really wouldn't worry about it.

Relax, go for a ride.

Last edited by Rosco; March 7th, 2009 at 10:38 AM.
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Old March 7th, 2009, 10:42 AM   #4
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I've posted before on this issue. I can't even ride my bike below 50 degrees ambient. Not because it's too cold for the rider, it's too cold for the bike.

BTW, your math is flawed on your cost-per-mile calculation. Your calc assume zero residual value, i.e., your bike crashes, bursts into flames and burns down to a smoking lump of rubble, and with no insurance.
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Old March 7th, 2009, 10:49 AM   #5
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I've posted before on this issue. I can't even ride my bike below 50 degrees ambient. Not because it's too cold for the rider, it's too cold for the bike.
Might sound silly but if you're worried have you considered some sort of partial block off plate for the radiator?

I've seen similar things on trucks radiators and even oil coolers on Harleys for sub zero conditions.

Last edited by Rosco; March 7th, 2009 at 10:52 AM.
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Old March 7th, 2009, 10:50 AM   #6
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I don't get the $1 a mile analogy.

Your bike cost $18K, PLUS quite a bit in maintenance over 18K miles.

But the real question I have is the whole 18K miles? You're going to get rid of it when it crosses 18K?

Shoot I can put 18K miles on a bike in two years EASY.

If you're not having any specific problems with it and Ducati says it's OK, ride it and quit worrying.

On a final note 32 MPG at 80 mph on an 1100 L twin is pretty darn good in my book.
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Old March 7th, 2009, 10:52 AM   #7
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The "problem" is that these bikes (by "bikes" i mean this level of technology and design) are ultimately made for tracks/racing not freeway use, you need a Nemesis unit or race ECU and PCIII....."problem" solved.
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Old March 7th, 2009, 12:23 PM   #8
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Mine does the same. I have never had any problem with it and to be honest my bike runs harder in colder weather due to the colder air and pressure. All my high performance cars run better also in the cold. On the milage I can get anywhere from 28-36 depending on what type of riding I am doing. I would say average is about 31-32.
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Old March 8th, 2009, 03:39 AM   #9
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Last edited by Rosco; March 8th, 2009 at 05:52 PM.
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Old March 8th, 2009, 06:18 PM   #10
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My bike runs at about 167-213 degrees during a normal 100 mile ride on a 75 degree day? Would this be considered normal range of temp for the bike?
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Old March 8th, 2009, 08:54 PM   #11
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I went on a ride today. Temperature outside was 51 degrees F. I partially blocked off the bottom half of the radiator with Gorilla Tape, as usual. The bike was running between 170-188 F. the entire ride. After I had the termi slip-ons and race ecu installed at 600mi. a year and a half ago, I noticed that the display was showing very low coolant temperatures. I initially thought that the sensor was bad, but the infra-red gauge I used confirmed that the display was accurate. I was under the impression that with a normal cooling system that changing the exhaust flow and fuel mixture shouldn't have a drastic effect on the operating temperature. As I said in a previous post on this subject, I got absolutely NOWHERE with my dealer on this subject. Riding my 1098 to the dealer in January '08, the bike was running a temp. of 118-122 F. on the highway. The dealer called the Ducati service rep and was told that this is "normal". That's total BS! I can't see the logic in consistently running an engine (ANY watercooled engine) below 160 F. Would you run your car that way? Isn't running an excessively rich mixture going to cause oil contamination and cylinder lubrication problems long-term? I still don't understand why the cooling system on my 1098 defies logic. I'd play it safe and partially block the radiator (and oil cooler) especially if you ride year-round like I do. IMO as long as the coolant temp is above 160F. when warmed up, the engine is going to stay healthy
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Old March 8th, 2009, 11:06 PM   #12
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I never understood this either. If someone has measured that the actual thermostat opens at 160 deg. At what temp does it close? I thought the engine would stay between these two temps until a higher temp than the open temp overtakes the cooling system cooling capacity and rises till the fans turn on to bring temps down to ???. The gauge in my truck and car do not fluctuate the way this bike does. It seems that the gauge is measuring system temp, not engine temp.
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Old March 9th, 2009, 05:01 AM   #13
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If your are worried about fuel consumption you have got the the wrong bike,. Who cares how much fuel they drink? Get a scoota.
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Old March 9th, 2009, 06:54 AM   #14
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Strad, if its rich, ( or lean, for that matter ) it wont affect the lubrication in the slightest.
Compression rings and scraper rings...remember?
Unless youre sugesting youve fucked something in there.
Think about it the 2 are always seperated.
If you atr talking CLEARENCES...well then, cooler isnt COLD. thats way different.
Put it on the track, and it will heat up more, work it, and all will be fine. Put around under 5- 6 K in those ambient conditions...and it wont heat up to the next map...easy...but no real harm done.
You bought a superbike, ride the thing the way it was intended
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Old March 9th, 2009, 06:55 PM   #15

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bstar360 View Post
If your are worried about fuel consumption you have got the the wrong bike,. Who cares how much fuel they drink? Get a scoota.

I'm not worried about the cost of fuel consumption, I'm worried about the reason that I get such bad gas milage and the long term effects it has on the motor. HUGE difference.
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