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Old January 21st, 2010, 02:25 AM   #1
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Spark Plugs 2008 1098

Hello all. I hope to be welcomed to this very wise community. My first question here to get my feet wet would be - if anyone here would recommend using the surface gap plugs for their 1098 Ducati. I have an '08 1098 with the Racing ECU, Termi's, and many other extra's.....The plugs mentioned above are the Champion 709/G54V's . As most of you know, there are no protruding electrode to these plugs. Most of us use the NGK - MAR10A-J 's . Before I install these gapless plugs - do any of you feel or know IF I will be gaining MORE hp's or less or that I HAVE just wasted my money on some overheated/puffery from a good salesman? They say that these plugs will limit or even illiminate any backfiring on my 1098 (which I have had) and will ignite more uniformly, thus producing more horsepower - at the cost of a lessor plug life.....Please help/advise !!

Also, I have never changed plugs on a 1098 before. Any tips or tricks you can provide for me?

Thanks a million!
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Old January 21st, 2010, 02:36 AM   #2
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Thumbs down Oil Filter

Just wanted to clear something up about oil filter and oil changes. Is it or Isn't it ok to fill up the filter prior to reinstalling filter after an oil change. I read on here that dealers are saying NOT to fill filter with oil and others are saying this is just false information.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 03:01 AM   #3
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Fill the oil filter.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 03:25 AM   #4
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Thanks a bunch
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Old January 21st, 2010, 04:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc_finder_js View Post
Just wanted to clear something up about oil filter and oil changes. Is it or Isn't it ok to fill up the filter prior to reinstalling filter after an oil change. I read on here that dealers are saying NOT to fill filter with oil and others are saying this is just false information.
And I've heard only half fill it.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 05:49 AM   #6
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ive never filled it before...
Thats why they put a oil sump
in the oil pan right?
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Old January 21st, 2010, 06:07 AM   #7
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Any help on the first post about the spark plug issue? Thanks!
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Old January 21st, 2010, 06:17 AM   #8
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oh, lol sorry ya there are different spark plugs that only spark with a hotter spark, nothing is gonna make sparking more clean or not... the hotter the spark plug the shorter the life... but the hotter the spark the more fuel you are probable to burn in the cylinder. So all in all if the plug does not burn the entirety of the fuel in the cylinder then you will still have back fire...
Normally the best fix for back fire is a decent map cuase your running a bit rich. But running rich wont hurt anything. itll just leave black soot in your exhaust. Running lean is when you dont have a bit of backfire and the bike is running really awesome! A engine runs its best right before it blows, cuase its running lean.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 06:23 AM   #9
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Oh and another thing you might wanna try is makeing your fuel as cold as you can...
Believe it or not the colder the fuel the more of it burns. Sounds bass ackwards to me but it works. The coldness of the fuel actually acts as a secoundary coolant and cools the cyinder for a breif ammount of time before the next ignition takes place. I dont rember where i read that at... If anyone wants to chime in theyre welcome to
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Old January 21st, 2010, 06:30 AM   #10
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I have read the heat range for these Champion "surface gap" plugs....incidentally, according to the charts - there IS NO heat range? WTF is this? Give me a heads up on where to find the coldest gas and highest octane beer in Fort Smith Arkansas.....
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Old January 21st, 2010, 06:37 AM   #11
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Well let me do some searching on plugs real quick ill let you know what i come up with cuase im at 11600 miles on my 1198 i gotta put ne plugs n at 15000 so i been needing to do the search any ways... 93 octane is fine... but if your really concerned with it try a gas company called vp raceing.... and the gas type is U4... its about 103octane and its oxyginated...only sad part is.. its like milk if you dont use it withn a certain time from cracking the barrel it goes bad. Most of the sport bikes round here run it half and half with 93 octance. Its somewhere round 13 bucks a gallon though. I only use it on track days. But yes you can tell a difference the bike runs smoother on bottum range... hp gain? i doubt it just a cleaner explosion in the cylinder
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Old January 21st, 2010, 06:54 AM   #12
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The primary function of the spark plug is to ignite the air/fuel mixture within the combustion chamber under any operating condition.

Spark plugs must provide a path and a location for electrical energy from the ignition coil to create a spark used to ignite the air-fuel mixture. A sufficient amount of voltage must be supplied by the ignition system to spark across the spark plug gap. This is called “Electrical Performance.”

The spark plug firing end temperature must be kept low enough to prevent pre-ignition, but high enough to prevent fouling. This is called “Thermal Performance”, and is determined by the heat range selected.
The spark plug heat range has no relationship to the electrical energy transferred through the spark plug. The heat range of a spark plug is the range in which the plug works well thermally. The heat rating of each NGK spark plug is indicated by a number; lower numbers indicate a hotter type, higher numbers indicate a colder type.
Heat rating and heat flow path of NGK Spark Plugs

Some basic structural factors affecting the heat range of a spark plug are:
  • <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Surface area and/or length of the insulator nose <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Thermal conductivity of the insulator, center electrode, etc. <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Structure of the center electrode such as a copper core, etc.
  • Relative position of the insulator tip to the end of the shell (projection)
The major structural difference affecting the heat rating is the length of the insulator nose. A hot type spark plug has a longer insulator nose. The insulator nose of a hotter spark plug has a longer distance between the firing tip of the insulator, and the point where insulator meets the metal shell. Therefore, the path for the dissipation of heat from the insulator nose to the cylinder head is longer and the firing end stays hotter. The insulator nose of a hotter spark plug also has a greater surface area that is exposed to more of the ignited gases and is easily heated to higher temperatures. A colder spark plug functions in an opposite manner.
The heat range must be carefully selected for proper spark plug thermal performance. If the heat range is not optimal, then serious trouble can be the result. The optimal firing end temperature is approximately between 500°C (932°F) and 800°C (1472°F). The two most common causes of spark plug problems are carbon fouling (< 450°C) and overheating (> 800°C).
Causes of Carbon Fouling:
  • <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Continuous low speed driving and/or short trips
    <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Spark plug heat range too cold <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Air-fuel mixture too rich <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Reduced compression and oil usage due to worn piston rings / cylinder walls <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Over-retarded ignition timing
  • Ignition system deterioration
Pre-delivery fouling

Carbon fouling occurs when the spark plug firing end does not reach the self-cleaning temperature of approximately 450°C (842°F). Carbon deposits will begin to burn off from the insulator nose when the self-cleaning temperature is reached. When the heat range is too cold for the engine speed, the firing end temperature will stay below 450°C and carbon deposits will accumulate on the insulator nose. This is called carbon fouling. When enough carbon accumulates, the spark will travel the path of least resistance over the insulator nose to the metal shell instead of jumping across the gap. This usually results in a misfire and further fouling.

If the selected spark plug heat range is too cold, the spark plug may begin to foul when the engine speed is low or when operating in cold conditions with rich air-fuel mixtures. In some cases, the insulator nose can usually be cleaned by operating the engine at higher speeds in order to reach the self-cleaning temperature. If the spark plug has completely fouled, and the engine will not operate correctly, the spark plug may need to be cleaned / replaced and the fouling cause identified.
Causes of Overheating:
  • <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Spark plug heat range too hot <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Insufficient tightening torque and/or no gasket <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Over-advanced ignition timing <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Fuel octane rating too low (knock is present) <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Excessively lean air-fuel mixture <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Excessive combustion chamber deposits <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Continuous driving under excessively heavy load
  • Insufficient engine cooling or lubrication
The most serious result of selecting a heat range that is too hot is overheating. Overheating will cause the electrodes to wear quickly and can lead to pre-ignition. Pre-ignition occurs when the air-fuel mixture is ignited by a hot object/area in the combustion chamber before the timed spark event occurs. When the spark plug firing end (tip) temperature exceeds 800°C, pre-ignition originating from the overheated insulator ceramic can occur. Pre-ignition will dramatically raise the cylinder temperature and pressure and can cause serious and expensive engine damage. When inspecting a spark plug that has experienced overheating or pre-ignition, blistering on the ceramic insulator and/or melted electrodes can sometimes be found.

As a general guideline, among identical spark plug types, the difference in tip temperature from one heat range to the next is approximately 70°C to 100°C.
Tip Temperature and Firing End Appearance
Some factors to consider in selecting the proper heat range spark plug
There are many external influences that can affect the operating temperature of a spark plug. The following is a brief list to consider in avoiding reduced performance and/or expensive engine damage.

Engine Speed and Load
  • <LI type=disc>If the engine is to be operated at high RPM, under a heavy load, or at high temperatures for long periods a colder heat range may be needed.
  • Conversely, if the engine is to be operated at low speeds or at low temperatures for long periods, a hotter heat range might be needed to prevent fouling.
Air-Fuel Mixture
  • <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Excessively rich air-fuel mixtures can cause the plug tip temperatures to decrease and carbon deposits to accumulate, possibly causing fouling and misfires. <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Excessively lean air-fuel mixtures can cause the cylinder and plug temperatures to increase, possibly resulting in knock and/or pre-ignition. This may cause damage to the spark plug and/or seriously damage the engine.
  • If an air-fuel ratio meter or gas analyzer is not available, it will be necessary to visually inspect the spark plugs frequently during the tuning process to determine the proper air-fuel mixture.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 06:54 AM   #13
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Fuel Type / Quality
  • <LI type=disc>Low quality and/or low octane fuel can cause knock which will elevate cylinder temperatures. The increased cylinder temperature will cause the temperature of the combustion chamber components (spark plug, valves, piston, etc.) to rise, and will lead to pre-ignition if the knock is uncontrolled.
  • When using an ethanol blend fuel with high ethanol content in high performance applications, a colder heat range may be necessary. The spark timing can be advanced further because ethanol blend fuel has a higher resistance to knock (higher octane). Due to the decreased knock, there will be less audible “warning” from knock before the spark plug overheats and pre-ignites.
    Some types of fuel additives in lower quality fuels can cause spark plug deposits that can lead to misfires, pre-ignition, etc.
Ignition Timing
  • <LI type=disc>Advancing ignition timing by 10° will cause the spark plug tip temperature to increase by approximately 70° to 100°C.
  • A colder heat range spark plug may be necessary if the ignition timing has been advanced to near the knock level. Higher cylinder temperatures near the knock level will bring the spark plug firing end temperature closer to the pre-ignition range.
Compression Ratio
  • Significantly increasing the static/dynamic compression ratio will increase cylinder pressures and the octane requirement of the engine. Knock may occur more easily. If the engine is operated near the knock level, a colder heat range spark plug may be necessary due to the resulting increased cylinder temperatures.
Forced Induction (Turbocharging, Supercharging)
  • A colder heat range spark plug may be necessary due to the increased cylinder temperature as boost pressure (manifold pressure) and subsequent cylinder pressure and temperature increase.
Ambient Air Temperature / Humidity
  • <LI type=disc>As the air temperature or humidity decreases, the air density increases, requiring a richer air-fuel mixture. If the air-fuel mixture is not properly richened, and the mixture is too lean, higher cylinder pressures / temperatures, knocking, and the subsequent increase in the spark plug tip temperatures can result.
  • As the air temperature or humidity increases, the air density decreases, requiring a leaner air-fuel mixture. If the air-fuel mixture is too rich, decreased performance and/or carbon fouling can result.
Barometric Pressure / Altitude
  • <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Air (atmospheric) pressure and cylinder pressure decrease as altitude increases. As a result, spark plug tip temperature will also decrease.
  • Fouling can occur more easily if the air-fuel mixture is not adjusted to compensate for the altitude. Higher altitude = less air = less fuel.<LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Types of Abnormal Combustion
    Pre-ignition
    • <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Pre-ignition occurs when the air-fuel mixture is ignited by a hot object / area in the combustion chamber before the timed spark event occurs. <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>When the spark plug firing end (tip) temperature exceeds 800°C, pre-ignition originating from the overheated insulator ceramic can occur. <LI class=copyC2 type=disc>Is most often caused by the wrong (too hot) heat range spark plug, and/or over-advanced ignition timing. An improperly installed (insufficient torque) spark plug can also result in pre-ignition due to inadequate heat transfer.
    • Pre-ignition will dramatically raise the cylinder temperature and pressure and can melt and hole pistons, burn valves, etc.
    Knock
    • <LI type=disc>Occurs when part of the air-fuel mixture in the combustion chamber away from the spark plug is spontaneously ignited by the pressure from a flame front originating from the spark plug. The two colliding flame fronts contribute to the “knocking” sound. <LI type=disc>Knock occurs more frequently when using low octane fuel. Low octane fuel has a low resistance to knock (low resistance to ignition) <LI type=disc>Knock is related to ignition timing. (Knock is sometimes referred to as “Spark-knock”.) Retarding the ignition timing will reduce knock. <LI type=disc>Heavy knock often leads to pre-ignition.
    • Heavy knock can cause breakage and/or erosion of combustion chamber components.
    • Knock is sometimes referred to as “ping” or “detonation”.
    Misfires
    • A misfire occurs when the spark travels the path of least resistance instead of jumping across the gap. Misfires can be caused by the following:
      1. Carbon fouling
      2. Worn or deteriorated ignition system components
      3. Too large of gap size
      4. Spark timing excessively advanced or retarded
      5. Damaged spark plugs (cracked insulator, melted electrodes, etc)
      6. Mismatched ignition system components (plug resistance / wire resistance, ignition coils / igniter modules, etc.)
      7. Insufficient coil primary and/or secondary voltage – voltage required to jump the spark plug gap higher than coil output
Referenced to this site

is wher ei got the information
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_su...x.asp?mode=nml
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Old January 24th, 2010, 09:58 PM   #14
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Spark Plugs

I appreciate the charts and valuable info -

So do we know anything about the Champion surface gap plugs or has anyone used them?

"Surface gap plugs," said Dave, "are only advantageous if the engine is going to consistently run above 4,000 RPM on a long term basis. They are the absolute coldest [temperature range] plugs you can put in an engine.


Surface Gap Plugs:
--coldest temperature range to suppress pre-ignition, so less heat to clear fouling deposits;
--less erosion of plug electrode at sustained high-speed operation;
--more electrode area, so less prone to fouling;
--higher cost (almost double);
--higher RFI potential.

Here is what Champion says about the surface gap spark plug:
"Champion surface gap V plugs have a .050-inch annular configuration with no ground electrode. Engineered for extremely cold application, the firing tip is nearly impervious to pre-ignition, however, fouling deposits can be problematic. These plugs have extremely limited use in racing and require a special high energy ignition system and a very rapid rise time(CD). Constructed with a nickel shell for faster heat dissipation and copper core or double copper (when noted) for further heat removal, all racing plugs are non resistor (unless specially noted)."

All info above provided by website listed below:
"http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/003563.html

According to the seller, these are "race" plugs - but again I am not a "racer", have the Duc aftermarket Termi's + ECU+ high Flow. I have experienced 3 or 4 backfires on this bike but only because I had a full tank of gass from seller FROM Texas. Since filling up with Arkansas gas, have not yet been able to duplicate the backfire problem... I appreciate all the knowledge - but again - I am NO Guru on the topic. Here is a pic of the plugs I bought and really just wanted all you fella's here to tell me it is OK to use them, or go back to the NGK - MAR10A-J...

From what I have read, and determined, it appears as though I need a colder plug? I am just apprehensive about stepping out of the box and NOT using the NGK's. See website containing HEAT RANGE for these 709/G54 Champion Plugs.
http://www.federalmogul.com/NR/rdonl..._race_plug.pdf
Thanks!
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Last edited by duc_finder_js; January 24th, 2010 at 10:04 PM.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 09:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
These plugs have extremely limited use in racing and require a special high energy ignition system and a very rapid rise time(CD).
Quote:
but again I am not a "racer"
I think you're going to foul these plugs in your normal use of the bike. A better map makes more sense to me.
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