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Old January 21st, 2011, 08:27 AM   #16
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Ok, so what happens when you make that panic stop and successfully avoid the car that pulled out from you but the guy behind you isn't quite as fast at stopping? Now you are at a dead stop in lets say 4th gear because you didn't downshift. You are proper screwed.

Not sure, but I think he meant do this in practice situations.

I cleaned the hell out of my discs a couple days ago...and since then I've been locking up the rear all over the place. WTF? This has never been a problem before. I don't think I'm anything differently with braking, but it has scared me enough to lay off the rear.
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Old January 21st, 2011, 08:36 AM   #17
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Not sure, but I think he meant do this in practice situations.
I understand that, but you are going to do in an emergency what you have been practicing. It is muscle memory. If you don't practice downshifting to 1st gear when you panic stop, you won't do it when you have to for real. Then you will be in trouble because you are at a stand still and possibly in a gear too high to accelerate if you need to get out of the way in a hurry. See how that could suck?
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Old January 21st, 2011, 02:44 PM   #18
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I've been riding as well as racing for years and the only times I use my rear brake *only* is when braking at SLOW speed on gravel (or cobblestones, sand, etc.) and on a wet & oily spot on the road coming up to a stop sign/light when my tires are cold. I have always by habit used both brakes together in hard braking situations, but as to how effective the rear really is I couldn't tell you. But what I can tell you is that once coming into a corner fast during a race my fronts failed on my rice burner and I flat-spotted my new rear slick with the rear brake in order to avoid crashing.
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Old January 21st, 2011, 03:44 PM   #19
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Heavy breaking: Dont use the rear, it's troublesome and inefective, and will step the rear of the bike out if you are anything but strait-line. This is because the slower spinning wheel will scribe the longer radius of the turn. ( nice if you want to oversteer a turn on the track, but that takes more talent than I have )

Medium breaking: You could use the rear, I guess, but why bother? My excuse is lazyness, plus I would rather downshift and dont want both boots off the 'sweet-spot' of the Pegs at the same time.

Light breaking: Maybe, but probably couldnt be bothered

AT a stop, waiting : Sure, great idea...very effective, especially if there is a slight incline
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Old January 21st, 2011, 04:52 PM   #20
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VFRMAN- I have taken an MSF course, my 1198S responds a little differently than the Suzuki 450 I rode in class. I have learned that a little rear brake in the corners while canyon riding makes a big difference. As for the speeds I have been mostly talking about 20mph to 30mph emergency maneuvers. Even at this speed it locks the rear wheel instantly. I always shift to first. Based on my msf course I pull all four, clutch, brake, shift, and rear. Thats what I was taught. On this bike that example is going to get me killed!
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Old January 21st, 2011, 05:36 PM   #21
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I laid down my S4RS and highsided because I stomped on my rear brake going through a moutain road at excessive speed. Having ridden an older Honda for some time I was used to relying on the rear brake in panic situations more than I should since the fronts didn't work worth a damn... well compared to the Ducati fronts.
Now I use my fronts exclusively applying it with one or at most two fingers. After putting close to 30K on my Ducs I'm very comfortable with this practice on the track as well as on the road.
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Old January 21st, 2011, 08:43 PM   #22
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Ok, so what happens when you make that panic stop and successfully avoid the car that pulled out from you but the guy behind you isn't quite as fast at stopping? Now you are at a dead stop in lets say 4th gear because you didn't downshift. You are proper screwed.
I was looking at it as a life and death stopping manuever but yea, the scenario you set, I get your point and agree. It can all be done simutaneously.
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Old January 21st, 2011, 09:24 PM   #23
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VFRMAN- I have taken an MSF course, my 1198S responds a little differently than the Suzuki 450 I rode in class. I have learned that a little rear brake in the corners while canyon riding makes a big difference. As for the speeds I have been mostly talking about 20mph to 30mph emergency maneuvers. Even at this speed it locks the rear wheel instantly. I always shift to first. Based on my msf course I pull all four, clutch, brake, shift, and rear. Thats what I was taught. On this bike that example is going to get me killed!
The experienced rider class you use your own bike. This would give you the opportunity to find out how your bike handles in a controlled environment. It sounds like you have the proper fundamentals (all four) and learning how much brake pressure the bike can handle is all that you need to figure out.

Thumbs up for taking a class! I take them every few years just to refresh my skills and try and kick any bad habits I might develop.

In Utah, the MSF guys used to have ART (Advanced Rider Training) at Miller Motorsports Park. That was a great class! They take you out on the Monster Mile go-cart track for some really good instruction. They might still do this, I haven't been in Utah for a few years.
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 06:05 AM   #24
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....so, am I to believe that in these classes, they say " oh, you have a ( put your bike name here 1198, R1 etc ) so you'll want to ignore the first and second thing we talked about in class....blah, blah )

you'd be telling me that the'll taylor it to you, the individual, and your bike?

I'm obviously sceptical, but anyway, just listen to our advice for the moment
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 09:06 AM   #25
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....so, am I to believe that in these classes, they say " oh, you have a ( put your bike name here 1198, R1 etc ) so you'll want to ignore the first and second thing we talked about in class....blah, blah )

you'd be telling me that the'll taylor it to you, the individual, and your bike?

I'm obviously sceptical, but anyway, just listen to our advice for the moment

??

Not at all. I am saying you get to practice the same techniques with your own bike, which helps you learn the capabilities of your bike and yourself.

You use the same techniques whether you are riding a Harley, Honda, or Ducati. The physics don't change, just the handling characteristics.
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 10:26 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by vfrman View Post
The experienced rider class you use your own bike. This would give you the opportunity to find out how your bike handles in a controlled environment. It sounds like you have the proper fundamentals (all four) and learning how much brake pressure the bike can handle is all that you need to figure out.

Thumbs up for taking a class! I take them every few years just to refresh my skills and try and kick any bad habits I might develop.

In Utah, the MSF guys used to have ART (Advanced Rider Training) at Miller Motorsports Park. That was a great class! They take you out on the Monster Mile go-cart track for some really good instruction. They might still do this, I haven't been in Utah for a few years.
Thanks Vman, I will most certainly look into taking that experienced rider course. That could be very helpful!
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 01:15 PM   #27
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perhaps even add a slipper clutch so there is no rear end wobble when engine braking hard in an emergency ....
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 08:39 PM   #28
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Just a little tip here.Set your brake pedal distance so only the Toe part of your boot is resting on or near that brake pedal,nothing more.The pressure you apply with your toes is all you ever need,and still keep it light pressure.Do not ever grab a fist full of front brake on this bike.Hope it helps.
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Old January 24th, 2011, 12:00 PM   #29
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Just a little tip here.Set your brake pedal distance so only the Toe part of your boot is resting on or near that brake pedal,nothing more.The pressure you apply with your toes is all you ever need,and still keep it light pressure.Do not ever grab a fist full of front brake on this bike.Hope it helps.
I agree! I shudder when I hear the words grab and stomp when it comes to braking. Gradual, progressive squeeze on the lever, two fingers is plenty! I did a panic stop the other day and managed a nice rolling stoppie. Not the best way to stop in the shortest distance possible....
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Old January 24th, 2011, 02:53 PM   #30
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1. Don't use the rear brake. You have a 330mm front rotor that is being stopped by a Brembo monobloc caliber - that will provide more than enough braking power.

2. Take an MSF course.
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