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Old May 3rd, 2007, 08:17 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaution321
The stalling issue is so bad that so many people are already selling their 1098's shortly after taking delivery.

I am now going back to the dealer a 4th time after they made some adjustments to the forward cylinder air bleed screw and it stalled again coming home. I too have been worried about an accident. As much as I don't want to do it I will be invoking the lemon law after 1 more attempt to fix the bike. I cannot enjoy my ride with this problem in the back of my mind. I'll be damned if I am gonna sell and potentially take a loss. I really just want it to be fixed.
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 08:49 AM   #32

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I have had my base 1098 (no exhaust mods) for about a month and I have around 900 miles on it. About 600 of those miles were on the street and 300 on the track. I have not had a single stall. Clearly stalling is not happening to all of the bikes, however, I am still very concerned about this issue, particularly with stalling in gears higher than 1st. Since I will be riding the bike on the track very often, the last thing I need to be thinking about in turn 1 after a 160+ MPH straight is stalling!

My Questions are: How many bikes stall right away vs. after the first breakin period? and How many bikes stall in gears above first?
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 10:13 AM   #33
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I have a quick question:

I have 400 miles on my Standard Duc. If it didn't really stall now, will it start stalling later?
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 10:20 AM   #34

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Thumbs up 1098 Impression and about that stallling...

Another one for the list here... took ownership of my 1098 standard back in March. Haven't quite had the weather to get through the break in mileage yet, but I have definitely experienced the stalling. The bike just flat out quits, and on the restart it cranks as if it the battery is low. Thought I was going to be calling in a buddy with a trailer a couples times. But the bike always restarted. More on this later...



About The bike to those 1098 hopefuls...



I live in a congested area with average speeds of 25-35 mph. It is clearly apparent that this bike doesnít like going slow. First sign is when you start to wonder if your ass is on fire or not. That exhaust puts out some serious heat. The clutch is hard-core, a bit of pull for city driving - feels like a really solid component for that power delivery to the rear wheel. Its a give and take, want a good solid clutch that can take some pounding you've got to give a little something up. Just think of the muscles you'll build from using it. The mirrors are the coolest looking I've seen yet on a sportbike, but are also the most useless I've experienced around town. The mirrors work ok when you are in the full tuck position. I recommend getting a couple of mirror bubbles that stick on to help open up your view around you - works like a charm and is essential for city driving. The seating position is dedicated. Very little cushion for your rear and the small tank has little to offer for relieving the stress of weight on your wrists. With regards to all that is noted above - from a race replica, I wouldn't expect any different - this is a Ducati not a Honda. This is the Ferrari of sportbikes... Ducati has always been. Comparing this bike to the Honda's, Yamaha's, Suzuki's etc. is like comparing a Chevy Corvette to a Ferrari 360 Modena. This bike is not for your normal guy. Personally I think motorcyclist should have to produce time and ratings like pilots for various aircrafts before they can ride a given bike. Just isnít right for a new-bee to be able to jump on a GSXR-1000, R1 or 1098 right out of the box, but thatís whole other discussion.



More on the bike... the transmission is the best I've felt. Shifts are confident and zero clunkiness. Miles past any other bike I've ridden. The brakes will down right throw your ass off. The power delivery is somewhere between a John Deere tractor and an R1 on steroids. Pulling out of turns with that tree stump pulling torque on tap is second to none. Its cheating. On an inline 4, youíre shifting and waiting for that engine to spool up and deliver the torque you need. The Ducati (like all Ducati superbikes) is ready with torque on tap. So what if an inline 4 has 170 hp at 10000 rpm. Who's gonna use that? This bike is an animal - it will eat my R1's lunch and ask for more.



OK - back to that stalling issue...



This seems to be clearly a fuel mixture problem. Again - the bike is not happy with slow driving. Its almost as if the engine just goes on strike and refuses to cooperate with slow speeds period. What I've experienced is when the bike gets to 180+ degrees F. It just revolts. I've experienced stalls at stops and stalls at slow speeds. Its totally predictable to occur any time when the engine temp gets to 180+. This combined with the exhaust temp you can feel on your ass, its obvious the bike is running on the lean side. This is not going to be an easy fix for Ducati. Basically it all comes down to how much control the ECU really has with regards to the engine sensors. Can the ECU compensate fuel mixture with regards to engine temperature combined with rear wheel speed? What I expect for Ducati to come up with is a new fuel map that is more of a happy medium for the everyday condition. Its apparent that Ducati squeezed as much power out of this engine as possible and are using an aggressive fuel mixture. You can adjust for best performance which is typically towards the lean side, or you can adjust for the every day which is on the rich side. The JAP bikes are always on the rich side out of the crate. This is why you get so much performance from a good re-map and aftermarket exhaust on the JAP bikes. Ideally, Ducati may be able get the ECU to do some more thinking... this meaning that if engine temperature gets above X and out-put sprocket speed is below Y (rear wheel speed), the mixture will richen up automatically. Something like that. Sounds simple - it is, but if the ECU wasnít designed to handle this kind of logical thinking then it wont work. A fuel map is just a set of raw data values that the ECU uses to set the mixture. Basically the ECU needs to compute extra data in the map. This is like having a plug with 3 prongs and youíre trying to put it into an outlet with only 2 prongs. It just wont work. Now I could be wrong, Ducati designers might not have painted them selves into a corner here when they selected this ECU, but I have my doubts. No other manufactures use ECUs in this way to my knowledge. There may be an aftermarket ECU that likely does have this capability, but I donít know of any. The other option here which is available is an ECU that allows you to keep multiple maps on tap. Basically, if you know youíre going to be tooling around town, you switch to the map that is more friendly for that kind of riding. On the other side - if you know you are going to be hauling ass, then you want to switch to the high performance map. The powercommander and yoshimira ECUs can do this. There are many other limiting and impacting factors here not noted that is helping cause this issue, like the head design, its compression ratio, fuel type usedÖ the list goes on. All things combined is causing this issue. FYI - Throwing on a full race exhaust isnít the answer here. It could help for a minuteÖ when you do that it increases the flow of exhaust gases out of the engine and may help keep that temp down a little longer. But with a new mapping, youíll likely have the same problem if you had it before you changed the exhaust. There some very fine tuning to be done here to get the bike running in moped mode around town.



So to wrap this long ass posting up... I recommend the 1098 to any hopeful out there. Its a truly awesome ride. The stalling will be an issue as long as Ducati uses the same map and you ride the bike in slow conditions. Any map they release that fixes the stalling will rob some of that horsepower... guaranteed. I'm sure the Ducati engineers are hard at work trying to find that happy medium right now. This bike was created to make performance numbers and just go fast, driving it around like a moped isnít what they had in mind. Take all of this with a grain of salt, this is all just my opinion... I've made no contact with Ducati and at this time donít really plan too. In addition I am not an expert by no stretch. Just wanted to offer some more insight to the problem and give credit to a great bike.



Keep the rubber side down...



Steve

Mechanical Engineer
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 11:41 AM   #35
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Steve, do you know if the ECU that came with the Termis would have a different mapping?
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 06:59 PM   #36
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I'm sure Ducati engineers are trying to come up with a fix, just a matter of when? After all, CEO of Ducati stated that this engine has been tested and retested longer than any other Ducati engines in history. But, i just think they forgot to test the other components that came with the bike.
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 07:56 PM   #37

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikepilot
...this is a Ducati not a Honda. This is the Ferrari of sportbikes... Ducati has always been. Comparing this bike to the Honda's, Yamaha's, Suzuki's etc. is like comparing a Chevy Corvette to a Ferrari 360 Modena. This bike is not for your normal guy.


At $15K, the 1098 is a "production" motorcycle; nothing more, nothing less. Stop making excuses and start demanding solutions.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bikepilot
...So what if an inline 4 has 170 hp at 10000 rpm. Who's gonna use that? This bike is an animal - it will eat my R1's lunch and ask for more.


This statement is nonsensical.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bikepilot
Throwing on a full race exhaust isnít the answer here. It could help for a minuteÖ when you do that it increases the flow of exhaust gases out of the engine and may help keep that temp down a little longer. But with a new mapping, youíll likely have the same problem if you had it before you changed the exhaust. There some very fine tuning to be done here to get the bike running in moped mode around town.


Installing full Termis "is" one answer, but not the final answer owners should expect from Ducati.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bikepilot
Any map they release that fixes the stalling will rob some of that horsepower... guaranteed.


All the described stalling seems to involve idle to off-idle mixture only. Resolving this will not effect the rest of the power band.

Last edited by SeaPilot; May 6th, 2007 at 03:05 PM.
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 08:27 PM   #38
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikepilot
Another one for the list here... took ownership of my 1098 standard back in March. Haven't quite had the weather to get through the break in mileage yet, but I have definitely experienced the stalling. The bike just flat out quits, and on the restart it cranks as if it the battery is low. Thought I was going to be calling in a buddy with a trailer a couples times. But the bike always restarted. More on this later...



About The bike to those 1098 hopefuls...



I live in a congested area with average speeds of 25-35 mph. It is clearly apparent that this bike doesnít like going slow. First sign is when you start to wonder if your ass is on fire or not. That exhaust puts out some serious heat. The clutch is hard-core, a bit of pull for city driving - feels like a really solid component for that power delivery to the rear wheel. Its a give and take, want a good solid clutch that can take some pounding you've got to give a little something up. Just think of the muscles you'll build from using it. The mirrors are the coolest looking I've seen yet on a sportbike, but are also the most useless I've experienced around town. The mirrors work ok when you are in the full tuck position. I recommend getting a couple of mirror bubbles that stick on to help open up your view around you - works like a charm and is essential for city driving. The seating position is dedicated. Very little cushion for your rear and the small tank has little to offer for relieving the stress of weight on your wrists. With regards to all that is noted above - from a race replica, I wouldn't expect any different - this is a Ducati not a Honda. This is the Ferrari of sportbikes... Ducati has always been. Comparing this bike to the Honda's, Yamaha's, Suzuki's etc. is like comparing a Chevy Corvette to a Ferrari 360 Modena. This bike is not for your normal guy. Personally I think motorcyclist should have to produce time and ratings like pilots for various aircrafts before they can ride a given bike. Just isnít right for a new-bee to be able to jump on a GSXR-1000, R1 or 1098 right out of the box, but thatís whole other discussion.



More on the bike... the transmission is the best I've felt. Shifts are confident and zero clunkiness. Miles past any other bike I've ridden. The brakes will down right throw your ass off. The power delivery is somewhere between a John Deere tractor and an R1 on steroids. Pulling out of turns with that tree stump pulling torque on tap is second to none. Its cheating. On an inline 4, youíre shifting and waiting for that engine to spool up and deliver the torque you need. The Ducati (like all Ducati superbikes) is ready with torque on tap. So what if an inline 4 has 170 hp at 10000 rpm. Who's gonna use that? This bike is an animal - it will eat my R1's lunch and ask for more.



OK - back to that stalling issue...



This seems to be clearly a fuel mixture problem. Again - the bike is not happy with slow driving. Its almost as if the engine just goes on strike and refuses to cooperate with slow speeds period. What I've experienced is when the bike gets to 180+ degrees F. It just revolts. I've experienced stalls at stops and stalls at slow speeds. Its totally predictable to occur any time when the engine temp gets to 180+. This combined with the exhaust temp you can feel on your ass, its obvious the bike is running on the lean side. This is not going to be an easy fix for Ducati. Basically it all comes down to how much control the ECU really has with regards to the engine sensors. Can the ECU compensate fuel mixture with regards to engine temperature combined with rear wheel speed? What I expect for Ducati to come up with is a new fuel map that is more of a happy medium for the everyday condition. Its apparent that Ducati squeezed as much power out of this engine as possible and are using an aggressive fuel mixture. You can adjust for best performance which is typically towards the lean side, or you can adjust for the every day which is on the rich side. The JAP bikes are always on the rich side out of the crate. This is why you get so much performance from a good re-map and aftermarket exhaust on the JAP bikes. Ideally, Ducati may be able get the ECU to do some more thinking... this meaning that if engine temperature gets above X and out-put sprocket speed is below Y (rear wheel speed), the mixture will richen up automatically. Something like that. Sounds simple - it is, but if the ECU wasnít designed to handle this kind of logical thinking then it wont work. A fuel map is just a set of raw data values that the ECU uses to set the mixture. Basically the ECU needs to compute extra data in the map. This is like having a plug with 3 prongs and youíre trying to put it into an outlet with only 2 prongs. It just wont work. Now I could be wrong, Ducati designers might not have painted them selves into a corner here when they selected this ECU, but I have my doubts. No other manufactures use ECUs in this way to my knowledge. There may be an aftermarket ECU that likely does have this capability, but I donít know of any. The other option here which is available is an ECU that allows you to keep multiple maps on tap. Basically, if you know youíre going to be tooling around town, you switch to the map that is more friendly for that kind of riding. On the other side - if you know you are going to be hauling ass, then you want to switch to the high performance map. The powercommander and yoshimira ECUs can do this. There are many other limiting and impacting factors here not noted that is helping cause this issue, like the head design, its compression ratio, fuel type usedÖ the list goes on. All things combined is causing this issue. FYI - Throwing on a full race exhaust isnít the answer here. It could help for a minuteÖ when you do that it increases the flow of exhaust gases out of the engine and may help keep that temp down a little longer. But with a new mapping, youíll likely have the same problem if you had it before you changed the exhaust. There some very fine tuning to be done here to get the bike running in moped mode around town.



So to wrap this long ass posting up... I recommend the 1098 to any hopeful out there. Its a truly awesome ride. The stalling will be an issue as long as Ducati uses the same map and you ride the bike in slow conditions. Any map they release that fixes the stalling will rob some of that horsepower... guaranteed. I'm sure the Ducati engineers are hard at work trying to find that happy medium right now. This bike was created to make performance numbers and just go fast, driving it around like a moped isnít what they had in mind. Take all of this with a grain of salt, this is all just my opinion... I've made no contact with Ducati and at this time donít really plan too. In addition I am not an expert by no stretch. Just wanted to offer some more insight to the problem and give credit to a great bike.



Keep the rubber side down...



Steve

Mechanical Engineer
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Old May 4th, 2007, 03:11 AM   #39
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My dealer called yesterday and said they were getting a new ECU for me....the base model has a non-programmable ECU. The new one will either have a new map or be totally programmable. But I would think if it's only a new map it would be a SW fix not a new ECU...say it's for a lean condition at idle. I too don't think correcting a lean idle condition should affect the entire power band.
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Old May 4th, 2007, 04:15 PM   #40

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Total BS here....got my bike service for the 1000 km. I looked at the bill...$600 cdn WOW ! for an oil change !!! the girl at the desk told me that they had to do all kind of test and adjustment for a total of 4.5 or 5.5 hrs...not sure , anyway, I spook with the manager and he reduce it by haft....still $300 cdn.

And for that price I have more stalling than before ! 6 time coming back home !

The good new is...in 3 weeks, I will have a new ECU; that what it take to get parts from Italy they told me.

Just ridiculous !
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Old May 5th, 2007, 03:16 AM   #41
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My bike is a standard 1098 with no mods. Mine was stalling badly in the first week at the lights while in gear or out of gear. I was really pissed off with the bike being my first Ducati. I was told to take it on a long ride as it was just the engine being 'tight' and running slightly lean. This I did not believe, but went on rides in the mountains anyway.

I have now done 3 weekend rides of over 300Kms. After the second weekend it has not stalled at all. I have just done many city rides with the engine temperature hovering between 95 and 105 degrees celcius. I have to say that I am now thorughly happy with my bike and have no problems. I know how some of you guys might feel and understand your frustration.

I am not saying this will fix all bikes, but it fixed mine. Take your bike out to the windy mountain roads, regularly run it to 6-7k and maybe yours will be cured like mine. I have just had the first service done too. Time to give it a good thrashing!
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Old May 5th, 2007, 03:50 AM   #42
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Some one posted on another forum that he rides it like a rental car and the only time he had any stalling is when he rode it like grandpa. My very unscientific research finds no correlation.

He does have a starter issue which is being fixed under warranty.
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Old May 5th, 2007, 05:38 AM   #43

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I will need a starter soon i guess....he is working had !

I did most of my riding in back road with hill and rode it in the 6K and since the 1000K km in the 7 rpm ....as recomended, but ((

How come evrey time we need some part it has to come from Italia and take 3 weeks ???? Do they know what a warehouse is for ?

Last edited by Grand Duc; May 5th, 2007 at 05:40 AM.
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Old May 5th, 2007, 12:41 PM   #44
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Grand Duc. Dealer should not have to charge you more for additional adjustments. They can easily perform any extra adjustments under warranty. Even at $300 that is still on the high side. Escpecially if the adjustment is related to the stalling that should be claimed under warranty not part of your maintenance. The stalling issue is not your problem it is Ducati's problem so why should you pay for it?
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Old May 5th, 2007, 02:38 PM   #45

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I know...they said that the extra time was bill to Ducati. Still I was billed for 2.20 hrs @ $79.95/h CDA plus $73.95 for 4 liter of oil(ipone full power), $18.95 oil filter, $4.40 oil cap gasket for a total of $98.78 parts only and a total of $319.39 Canadian dollar witch is $287.93 USD......and DNA said that cost around $144 USD plus tax !

The only revenge I have with my dealer...I get all my goody from the State...lot's cheaper !

Buy the way....they want $3800 plus taxes and installation for a set of full termi ! Funny, Ducati dealer in Florida offering me to pay my gas and an ocean front hotel for a week if I buy it from them at this price...lol.

Last edited by Grand Duc; May 5th, 2007 at 02:40 PM.
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