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Old September 18th, 2008, 08:50 AM   #1
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Swingarm powder coating...bad for the metal?

One of my winter mods was to powder coat the swing arm satin black.

Two people now have suggested I not do it. The claim the heat used in powder coating could weaken the metal.

Thoughts?
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Old September 18th, 2008, 08:56 AM   #2
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Powder coat temps should not be high enough to effect the heat treat of the metal.
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Old September 18th, 2008, 09:24 AM   #3
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when I am not wrong the used temperatures are around 150 C und 220 C.
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Old September 18th, 2008, 03:42 PM   #4
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The temps used for powder coating ~400F for about 20 minutes can anneal some types of heat treated aluminium. Without know the exact alloy the swingarm is made of and treatment of the metal it is hard to say what the effect would be. If you really want to be safe there are low temp powder coatings or call Ducati and see if they will give you an answer.
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Old September 18th, 2008, 10:10 PM   #5
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I powder coat at My shop & I have never, Ever heard of anyone ever having a problem with aluminum anealing, The aluminum gets WAY hotter when they weld it, than it ever will in the powdercoat oven.... 360 degrees for 20 minutes.... No worries I do them all the time on other bikes.... along with farmes....
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Old September 18th, 2008, 11:38 PM   #6
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Welllllll. Not quite true... Who say's they're not being heat treated after the assembly welding??

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Originally Posted by PainterDude View Post
I powder coat at My shop & I have never, Ever heard of anyone ever having a problem with aluminum anealing, The aluminum gets WAY hotter when they weld it, than it ever will in the powdercoat oven.... 360 degrees for 20 minutes.... No worries I do them all the time on other bikes.... along with farmes....
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Old September 19th, 2008, 12:00 AM   #7
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Aluminum melting point at 660C, so no problem.
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Old September 20th, 2008, 05:15 PM   #8
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Heat treating would be done after welding. You should really do some research or consult a materials expert, some aluminum is heat treated around 400F so heated back to that temp can remove the heat treat. There are also some engineering forums that you could post the question too, http://www.eng-tips.com/index.cfm. I have a Harley Davidson with heat treated aluminum alloy wheels and I talked to HD and they recommended not powder coating them.
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Old September 20th, 2008, 09:09 PM   #9
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Slowpoke, we are on the same page, just reading it differently

I thought thats what I said in my post, perhaps my wording was wrong. Your explanation was much more clear than mine..

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Heat treating would be done after welding. You should really do some research or consult a materials expert, some aluminum is heat treated around 400F so heated back to that temp can remove the heat treat. There are also some engineering forums that you could post the question too, http://www.eng-tips.com/index.cfm. I have a Harley Davidson with heat treated aluminum alloy wheels and I talked to HD and they recommended not powder coating them.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 08:20 PM   #10
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Welllllll. Not quite true... Who say's they're not being heat treated after the assembly welding??



RC

This is a good point, but 6061 t4 heat tempers at 974 degree's Farinheight, so I don't really think that 380 is going to hurt it much.... But if some experts would like to chime in feel free....
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Old September 21st, 2008, 08:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
Heat treating would be done after welding. You should really do some research or consult a materials expert, some aluminum is heat treated around 400F so heated back to that temp can remove the heat treat. There are also some engineering forums that you could post the question too, http://www.eng-tips.com/index.cfm. I have a Harley Davidson with heat treated aluminum alloy wheels and I talked to HD and they recommended not powder coating them.
Deffinative words here are "Some Aluminum"
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Old September 21st, 2008, 10:19 PM   #12
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No expert but...

I did some of my apprentice Millwright training @ Kaiser Aluminum Forging Plant.. I did not work production, but I recall they heat treated forged 6061 parts @ 350deg for 8-12hrs depending on application.. metalurgist I am not.. So, I shamelessly stole this from another forum...

Thanks to Desmodog the information is right there..

Quote:
Found your article most enlightening. A metallurgist friend told me a few years ago that things like aluminum wheel spindles should not be powder coated. He explained that aluminum billet material (6061-T6 ?) changed crystal structure at a critical temperature around 410 degrees F (as I recall). The thrust was that the heating step would adversely affect the strength of the material. Non-structural components would be OK, but not something that "holds the spokes on".
Quote:

The metallurgist is correct. Products like wheel billets, scuba tanks, etc. can be powder coated, but only with powders which cure below peak metal temperature of 300 degrees F. The crystalline realignment at 400 degrees F causes the previous ductile aluminum to become brittle. Imagine the catastrophe when an 80 cu. ft. scuba tank explodes under 3000 psi pressure after an unauthorized powder coat (this actually happened). To my knowledge, all Aluminum wheels and other strength-critical aluminum components are powder coated with these cooler curing powders.
It's from this page:
http://my.execpc.com/~davewrit/Powder.html
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PainterDude View Post
This is a good point, but 6061 t4 heat tempers at 974 degree's Farinheight, so I don't really think that 380 is going to hurt it much.... But if some experts would like to chime in feel free....
RC
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 08:40 PM   #13
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Why not annodize?

I've seen a 1098 with a powder coated swingarm, and one that's been annodized...IMO, the annodized swingarm looks ten times better. There's some cool texture in the swingarm. Powder coating the 1098 swingarm is like taking a beautiful piece of wooden furniture and covering it with paint...Ideally you'd want to"stain" the wood to bring out the details.
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 11:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51-05 View Post
No expert but...

I did some of my apprentice Millwright training @ Kaiser Aluminum Forging Plant.. I did not work production, but I recall they heat treated forged 6061 parts @ 350deg for 8-12hrs depending on application.. metalurgist I am not.. So, I shamelessly stole this from another forum...

Thanks to Desmodog the information is right there..

Quote:
Found your article most enlightening. A metallurgist friend told me a few years ago that things like aluminum wheel spindles should not be powder coated. He explained that aluminum billet material (6061-T6 ?) changed crystal structure at a critical temperature around 410 degrees F (as I recall). The thrust was that the heating step would adversely affect the strength of the material. Non-structural components would be OK, but not something that "holds the spokes on".
Quote:

The metallurgist is correct. Products like wheel billets, scuba tanks, etc. can be powder coated, but only with powders which cure below peak metal temperature of 300 degrees F. The crystalline realignment at 400 degrees F causes the previous ductile aluminum to become brittle. Imagine the catastrophe when an 80 cu. ft. scuba tank explodes under 3000 psi pressure after an unauthorized powder coat (this actually happened). To my knowledge, all Aluminum wheels and other strength-critical aluminum components are powder coated with these cooler curing powders.
It's from this page:
http://my.execpc.com/~davewrit/Powder.html
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RC
A friend told him & He thinks & To his knowledge & you stole it off another forum.... I'm glad you are so possitive about your information....

Senseless to argue with such a source of knowledge, I went directly to the source & I know the answer.... But believe what you want....No matter to me...

Do you know the difference between T4 & T6??

Are you confusing Aging with Tempering???

With aging it is like 360 for 8-24 hours, but again, Temp & time, 380 for 20 min. is not enough temp for a long enough time to cause any problems...

Last edited by PainterDude; September 23rd, 2008 at 12:11 AM.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 03:54 AM   #15
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The stock R model swing arm is annodised black.
Not that that helps tell if powdercoating is OK, but it verifies annodising is
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