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Old April 2nd, 2019, 05:05 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trussdude View Post
Blipping the throttle to match revs is for downshifts.
yes, it's early but I'm pretty darn sure you have to cut throttle to quick shift.

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Old April 2nd, 2019, 08:43 AM   #17
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I use mine around town all of the time. Ive put like 20k on an MV Agusta doing it for a decade and it still shifts like a Weatherby rifle. Done it for years on a KTM, a BMW, a Honda, etc. The only bikes Id pass on are ones with garbage/loose transmissions, not because its going to damage the tranny but because its going to upset the bike, hard to get smooth.

Probably need to get specific with terminology. Blip raises revs. For a quick shift you "chop" (albeit very slightly) or cut the throttle as you load the shifter. When you go from accelerating to decelerating there is an instance where there is no load on the transmission. Since its a constant mesh all you need is a few milliseconds for the dog to move unencumbered.

It has nothing to do with the hardness of the shift, it doesn't even have to be hard. It can be done at 6000rpm while cruising up to highway speed if you want, doesn't matter. Youre literally doing the EXACT SAME THING the FACTORY INSTALLED QS is doing, you just arent as fast.

It also has nothing to do with the issue with the selector linkage. The load on the selector is the same whether you use the clutch or not, the parts doing the work differently are the dog/cone inside the box itself.

As for wear and tear, its a bogus argument. Nothing about it is different to the work the transmission does if you do us the clutch only exists to control the difference in engine speed to the input shaft. In this case the transmission will only shift once you match input and output speed exactly. Its the perfect rev match EVERY TIME because its the only way it works. If you spend a half day getting comfortable with it you will be able to do a smoother, aka easier on the entire drivetrain, and faster upshift using that technique than even the most skilled rider can do using the clutch because its impossible to get the revs matched with the clutch pulled exactly like is required for a clutchless upshift to happen.

The only time I dont do it is 1-2 because its easy to accidentally just grab neutral and the torque ratio can make it a bit jerky. But from 2-on I dont clutch.

*if you have a quickshifter dont cut the throttle, it does it for you and youll just slow it down*

Quote:
ďSafeĒ is a relative term itís not only about screwing up the bike as that is difficult. Hard shift is a hard shift and while the is no evidence I have to ask myself is clutchless shifting a contributing factor for the need of the internal shift linkage service bulletin? Probably not <shrugs>

Anyways itís a riders preference Iíd advice adding a system that assists you instead of adding the need to blip the throttle. We have enough to pay attention to while riding..
So youre contradicting me but openly admitting you dont have a reason? Also, just to be clear, you believe that removing your left fingers from the bar and doing ANOTHER action is safer than JUST doing the two steps.

It doesnt even take any thought. Ignore any "tips" to doing it. Dont think. Just take the engine to the revs where you would normally shift (be it aggressively or at 6500 while just cruising up to speed) and do the steps you would normally do save for pulling the clutch. Its stupid easy and on a medium to large displacement sportbike its insanely easy to perfect.
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Old April 2nd, 2019, 12:04 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ryan stewart View Post
I use mine around town all of the time. Ive put like 20k on an MV Agusta doing it for a decade and it still shifts like a Weatherby rifle. Done it for years on a KTM, a BMW, a Honda, etc. The only bikes Id pass on are ones with garbage/loose transmissions, not because its going to damage the tranny but because its going to upset the bike, hard to get smooth.

Probably need to get specific with terminology. Blip raises revs. For a quick shift you "chop" (albeit very slightly) or cut the throttle as you load the shifter. When you go from accelerating to decelerating there is an instance where there is no load on the transmission. Since its a constant mesh all you need is a few milliseconds for the dog to move unencumbered.

It has nothing to do with the hardness of the shift, it doesn't even have to be hard. It can be done at 6000rpm while cruising up to highway speed if you want, doesn't matter. Youre literally doing the EXACT SAME THING the FACTORY INSTALLED QS is doing, you just arent as fast.

It also has nothing to do with the issue with the selector linkage. The load on the selector is the same whether you use the clutch or not, the parts doing the work differently are the dog/cone inside the box itself.

As for wear and tear, its a bogus argument. Nothing about it is different to the work the transmission does if you do us the clutch only exists to control the difference in engine speed to the input shaft. In this case the transmission will only shift once you match input and output speed exactly. Its the perfect rev match EVERY TIME because its the only way it works. If you spend a half day getting comfortable with it you will be able to do a smoother, aka easier on the entire drivetrain, and faster upshift using that technique than even the most skilled rider can do using the clutch because its impossible to get the revs matched with the clutch pulled exactly like is required for a clutchless upshift to happen.

The only time I dont do it is 1-2 because its easy to accidentally just grab neutral and the torque ratio can make it a bit jerky. But from 2-on I dont clutch.

*if you have a quickshifter dont cut the throttle, it does it for you and youll just slow it down*



So youre contradicting me but openly admitting you dont have a reason? Also, just to be clear, you believe that removing your left fingers from the bar and doing ANOTHER action is safer than JUST doing the two steps.

It doesnt even take any thought. Ignore any "tips" to doing it. Dont think. Just take the engine to the revs where you would normally shift (be it aggressively or at 6500 while just cruising up to speed) and do the steps you would normally do save for pulling the clutch. Its stupid easy and on a medium to large displacement sportbike its insanely easy to perfect.
You are way to much on the defense, watch the video that is my take. If you watched it they in fact say you can fuck shit up just like if you do wheelies wrong.. <shrug>

You have experience doing it and that makes your points all that more valid.

And you are way more technically refined than me as in blip vs chop.

I've not once said you were wrong, I gave my opinions based on things I've observed. They are just that so please don't take it as a personal attack on your knowledge. If anything the sunny side on this is your are telling us more and I'm learning more...

Novice users should read up and practice before they launch into clutchless shifting (without) a QS system that is my opinion...

It is also my opinion that I would not want to buy a bike from someone clutchless shifting without a true QS system on the bike...

I never said you had to chop the throttle with a QS system that is the entire point the bike does it for you.

Without these discussion without guys like you I' would of never been able to build my own 848 and for that I thank you
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Old April 2nd, 2019, 12:51 PM   #19
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Im just trying to get accurate information out there. Youre contradicting it when the only legit response is, "I dont know, but Im afraid of doing it."

If youre gonna contradict me have an actual reason. "I dont know" isnt one worthy of even making a statement. Its why I dont go beyond "Ive used X and Y and preferred one over the other because" in a discussion about oil or tires. And I wouldn't continue when a guy comes in and says X brand is going to be better in inclimate weather because they use this new siping design and sunflower oil to dissipate heat so they can use a softer compound. (something I actually found when researching a tire).
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Old April 2nd, 2019, 01:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan stewart View Post
Im just trying to get accurate information out there. Youre contradicting it when the only legit response is, "I dont know, but Im afraid of doing it."

If youre gonna contradict me have an actual reason. "I dont know" isnt one worthy of even making a statement. Its why I dont go beyond "Ive used X and Y and preferred one over the other because" in a discussion about oil or tires. And I wouldn't continue when a guy comes in and says X brand is going to be better in inclimate weather because they use this new siping design and sunflower oil to dissipate heat so they can use a softer compound. (something I actually found when researching a tire).
Did you watch the video are they contradicting you ?

Do you have a Lotta good information and a lot of facts there are also some opinions thatís all Iím saying not everything is black-and-white as you pointed out when it comes to tires and oilís
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Old April 2nd, 2019, 01:07 PM   #21
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By the way if you been on the forum long enough you know I am no means an expert itís a learning process and even when I think I know for sure Iíd always question myself so no Iím not trying to contradict.

I think thereís good reasons for not using clutchless if youíre not capable itís not about being scared or I donít know I think the video explains very well the good and the bad .

Not everybody is as seasoned on many types of motorcycles as you thereís a lot of shit going on and most people should have their eyes on the road not trying to fuck around with trying to quick shift when there is no quick shift device. Thereís even people out there that shouldnít be on motorcycles.

Yes it can be done safely if done properly you and I can agree to disagree on that I guess . If youíre telling me when youíre grinding gears trying to get it to work itís not causing any damage there is where I disagree. There is also a known problem on the shifter mechanism that you need a service bulletin on it gets misaligned overtime that very well could be people doing sloppy shifts I donít know.

I know when I tried it without a quick shit system I was extremely uncomfortable that doesnít make for a very alert rider.
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Old April 2nd, 2019, 08:31 PM   #22
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It’s confirmed it’s not easy for the challenged lol!
I tried 4 times to shift clutchess on the way home on the street bike (no QS) 1 out of 4 I got it to shift. I wanted to confirm my previous attempts, no grinding of gears this time ( only trying from 2nd to 3rd). It was smooth and worked when I properly chopped the throttle.

Funny about you points, using your finger off bar to clutch being more distracting, and not upsetting the bike as much when shifting clutchless.

I found the entire process upsetting lol. I’ll stick to my comfort zone on the surface streets and rip it up on the track where it’s safer...
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 10:54 AM   #23
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Ok, so you cant figure it out. You're special I guess.

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Originally Posted by Tchase View Post
Did you watch the video are they contradicting you ?
You mean the video that spends 4 minutes and 20 seconds talking about how it works, why it works, the advantages of it and how much fun it is and then throws a 10 seconds "but I guess you could mess it up" without saying anything else on the subject?

Yeah, that doesn't contradict me. I even said "If you're dense then you could mess it up." Obviously you've proven that.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 10:57 AM   #24
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As for being seasoned, I had to lose my virginity too. And it was maybe a half of a day to figure out how to do it once someone told me how it works. I didn't even have the advantage of a youtube video at the time.

I could see if were talking about a different bike with a different transmission. But on THIS type of transmission I personally has confirmed it. And obviously Ducati is comfortable the transmission is designed to handle it since they put a factory QS on it.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 11:04 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by ryan stewart View Post
Ok, so you cant figure it out. You're special I guess.



You mean the video that spends 4 minutes and 20 seconds talking about how it works, why it works, the advantages of it and how much fun it is and then throws a 10 seconds "but I guess you could mess it up" without saying anything else on the subject?

Yeah, that doesn't contradict me. I even said "If you're dense then you could mess it up." Obviously you've proven that.
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As for being seasoned, I had to lose my virginity too. And it was maybe a half of a day to figure out how to do it once someone told me how it works. I didn't even have the advantage of a youtube video at the time.

I could see if were talking about a different bike with a different transmission. But on THIS type of transmission I personally has confirmed it. And obviously Ducati is comfortable the transmission is designed to handle it since they put a factory QS on it.
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 11:49 AM   #26
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And obviously Ducati is comfortable the transmission is designed to handle it since they put a factory QS on it.
Just stop......mixing apples and oranges to prove your point.




QS is not manual clutchless shifting. I've only been talking about manual, I recommend QS for highway or track use and find it useless on surface streets.

Show me anywhere in writing Ducati says to manual shift clutchless. They are comfortable that their transmission can handle it with a QS installed for FFS...
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 11:51 AM   #27
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Just a heads up, you dont have to clutch to upshift on these bikes, and shouldnt.
and shouldn't says the Ducati engineer.....
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Old April 3rd, 2019, 03:54 PM   #28
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Yeah, clutchless shifting and using a quick shifter are two completely different things.
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Old April 4th, 2019, 01:00 AM   #29
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So my pads came in today.

I spent the last few days making a plate relocation kit out of some 22ga steel. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out, I'll make a thread with my process later. I also got some gold heat reflective mat for under the seat as an extra layer of heat protection. I have to tell yinz I was really surprised to pull the seat and find there s nothing there between it and the subframe lol

One thing that struck me is the actual weight of the 4 snakeskin pads that came in the kit. I've used stomp pads on my track bikes before and don't remember them being this heavy. I'm currently equating the weight with quality, they seem well made to me. I'm moving this weekend, so very much looking forward to getting some time in my new garage to throw on last week's MotoGP race and getting them installed
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Old April 4th, 2019, 06:16 AM   #30
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So my pads came in today.

I spent the last few days making a plate relocation kit out of some 22ga steel. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out, I'll make a thread with my process later. I also got some gold heat reflective mat for under the seat as an extra layer of heat protection. I have to tell yinz I was really surprised to pull the seat and find there s nothing there between it and the subframe lol

One thing that struck me is the actual weight of the 4 snakeskin pads that came in the kit. I've used stomp pads on my track bikes before and don't remember them being this heavy. I'm currently equating the weight with quality, they seem well made to me. I'm moving this weekend, so very much looking forward to getting some time in my new garage to throw on last week's MotoGP race and getting them installed
back on topic finally! Post some pics when you get them installed..
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