ducati.org forum | the home for ducati owners and enthusiasts

ducati.org forum | the home for ducati owners and enthusiasts (https://www.ducati.org/forums/)
-   848 (https://www.ducati.org/forums/848/)
-   -   Improving shifting on my '12 848 Corse (and any other reason to take off the covers) (https://www.ducati.org/forums/848/114149-improving-shifting-my-12-848-corse-any-other-reason-take-off-covers.html)

ryan stewart July 18th, 2019 05:39 AM

Improving shifting on my '12 848 Corse (and any other reason to take off the covers)
 
Two issues I have are:
1. Hard shifting, especially when "cold." Its QUITE tight for a bit, beyond just heating coolant but need to heat soak the engine for a bit before it gets a bit looser, but never what I would call "smooth." The throw is short and precise but the effort is ALWAYS there compared to my other bikes.
2. False neutrals, especially seems to be from 4th to 5th. Yeah I know, "bang it" but Ive never had this problem on my other bikes, including both another superbike and a freaking Guzzi (famous for shitty transmissions).

So planning on doing the factory pro ceramic kit:
https://motowheels.com/i-11779860-fa...it-ducati.html

But already bummed I hadnt researched these things BEFORE doing my slipper, else i would have just taken a shotgun to it and did it all while in there.

So, while Im popping a casing off and taking the bike down because its too damned hot in the SE to be on a track in leather what else should I be doing down there?

jwm2k3 July 18th, 2019 07:06 AM

I've had a few 848's and an 1198 that have had the factory quickshifter that is on your Corse.

Let's start with the fact that the gearbox design is ancient and notchy/hard to shift even when brand new. Add to that the internal shift fork can bend or break, the fork springs can and do break.

Then on top of that let's add an electronic shifter with lots of fulcrums and linkages.

The above has all caused me problems, mostly on the racetrack.

My current solution for the racebike is a direct mount GP shift, electric quickshifter made by SP Electronics out of England. No fulcrums, no linkages.

My previous 848 racebike had the internal issues. 2 broken shifter fork springs and a bent shifter fork. These problems were the cause of WAY TOO MANY false neutrals going into corners. Scary as shit when you're at full tilt.

Also, the 1st 2012 Corse I had was a streetbike and I had to be very aware of shifting it like I meant it with that sloppy factory quickshifter. If I was lazy, it would be a false neutral. If I shifted it like a man, it worked great.

Just my experience, hope that helps

Tchase July 18th, 2019 07:12 AM

What size clutch slave cylinder are you running.

Both my bikes are shifting and going into neutral like butter now.

The factory pro-shift is a nice add but will not solve the problem with a clutch slave that is too big for easy pull on the lever.

I got these on both bikes all my problems went away..

26mm option..

https://www.bellissimoto.com/parts/c...ave-for-ducati

Tchase July 18th, 2019 07:14 AM

^ I have the OEM quick shift and slipper and had the same problems you are having..

ryan stewart July 18th, 2019 07:17 AM

Stock clutch MC, but havent had any issues with it other than its weight is heavier than my MV Agusta (with a 20 year old transmission design BTW) but that isnt really an issue.

Regarding the forks, linkages and whatnot are there any relatively simple improvements to implement without pulling apart the transmission completely? Its not happening "a lot" but its enough to blow my confidence for a lap or two until I forget it. I can try and push harder but it sounds like, if those components are weak, pushing harder might just make things worse in the long run.

I dont really follow on the QS causing it. I have rearsets with a linkage on the MV (optional GP shift design but I really just wanted the pedal linked to the rearset) and it hasnt caused any problems.

On SATO rearsets and have it adjusted for a quicker throw in the hopes of making sure Im always pushing it to the stops. I know that is going to increase the effort a bit and that doesnt bother me as much. The neutrals are job #1 honestly.

Tchase July 18th, 2019 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan stewart (Post 1219675)
Stock clutch MC, but havent had any issues with it other than its weight is heavier than my MV Agusta (with a 20 year old transmission design BTW) but that isnt really an issue.

Regarding the forks, linkages and whatnot are there any relatively simple improvements to implement without pulling apart the transmission completely? Its not happening "a lot" but its enough to blow my confidence for a lap or two until I forget it. I can try and push harder but it sounds like, if those components are weak, pushing harder might just make things worse in the long run.

I dont really follow on the QS causing it. I have rearsets with a linkage on the MV (optional GP shift design but I really just wanted the pedal linked to the rearset) and it hasnt caused any problems.

On SATO rearsets and have it adjusted for a quicker throw in the hopes of making sure Im always pushing it to the stops. I know that is going to increase the effort a bit and that doesnt bother me as much. The neutrals are job #1 honestly.

Stock slave??? Thatís what Iím talking about not the MC

ryan stewart July 18th, 2019 07:26 AM

Sorry yeah slave, havent messed with any of the hydraulics (only change was to the RC2 for comfort).

Tchase July 18th, 2019 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan stewart (Post 1219679)
Sorry yeah slave, havent messed with any of the hydraulics (only change was to the RC2 for comfort).

Have you adjusted the throw in the lever?

ryan stewart July 18th, 2019 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchase (Post 1219683)
Have you adjusted the throw in the lever?

Done nothing on the throw, just the starting point using the roll on the CRG. I dont usually use the lever on the upshifts anyway.

Tchase July 18th, 2019 11:12 AM

I'm not technically sound on this, but I've fought it and finally solved the problem and there are a few things that can compound the problem.

Even if you are not using the clutch lever the pin still engages the MC if its not adjusted properly it will cause problems.

If you put the bike on a stand engine off and ignition on, run through your gears, you'll notice you can find neutral every time. But when the engine is running if it's harder to find (a lot) you have a problem withe the lever adjustment, slave cylinder or stack height on the clutch. There a few other things but that would be along the lines of assembling wrong , like when I pulled the OEM clutch basket and the washer on the back side was stuck to it and it wasn't reinstalled with the slipper.....



Anyways my point is even if you are not using the lever it can still be in play...


Where is Shazam when we need him...

Svensken July 18th, 2019 12:02 PM

Too little dead lever (master cylinder pushrod adjusted too tight) and the clutch will slip when hot. Too much dead lever (master cylinder pushrod adjusted too slack) and the slave has insufficient movement to fully disengage the clutch.

Another thing that happens is the plates sticking in the basket. My EVR (I know Pat1098 found this as well) tends to have drag between basket and hub even if slave moves well. This makes it particularly difficult to find Neutral with engine running.

The Factory Pro shift components really help but are a bit of work to install. Since the shifter is already an issue on these bikes, replacing the sector spring with a better one and then going through all the work of lining it all up correctly is really worth it in the end.

Tchase July 18th, 2019 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svensken (Post 1219715)
Too little dead lever (master cylinder pushrod adjusted too tight) and the clutch will slip when hot. Too much dead lever (master cylinder pushrod adjusted too slack) and the slave has insufficient movement to fully disengage the clutch.

Another thing that happens is the plates sticking in the basket. My EVR (I know Pat1098 found this as well) tends to have drag between basket and hub even if slave moves well. This makes it particularly difficult to find Neutral with engine running.

My new Shazam expert :)

Svensken July 18th, 2019 02:01 PM

https://www.ducati.org/forums/how-to...mechanism.html

Svensken July 18th, 2019 02:03 PM

https://www.ducati.org/forums/how-to...tallation.html

marc99 July 24th, 2019 05:53 PM

You shouldn't have to treat your shift lever like it's a live rattlesnake and be stomping on it to change gears.
As a goal, it should be that if you click it out of gear, it oughta go into the next gear.
(it's good to have goals)

Do all the normal stuff (change oils, lube and optimize shift linkages, etc) and at best you'll make "shifting", noticeably better.

If your transmission still has too many missed shifts and ghost neutrals from lazy shifting and you wish that the shift lever wasn't so gol-dern hard to move-

There's help-
For that "snick, snick, snick" shifting and to make missed shifts and ghost neutrals a rarity, you need to increase the shift drum rotational speed which makes the gears engage quicker and more fully.
You do that with a low friction microbearing equiped detent arm and a slightly stronger shift spring. (Motowheels has the kit) And it's about a 6 install. All these parts are under the RIGHT engine cover.

And the other OPTIONAL softer spring that goes on the LEFT side of the bike -
This, OTHER spring is the shift lever centering spring. The stock one is very stiff, esp on an 848!

The good news/bad news:
The bad news: That replacing this spring forces you to adjust the shift arm.
The good news: That replacing this spring forces you to adjust the shift arm.
This, OTHER spring lets the shift lever move up and down easier.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:58 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.