Improving shifting on my '12 848 Corse (and any other reason to take off the covers) - ducati.org forum | the home for ducati owners and enthusiasts

Remember me
Login  |   Register

ducati.org forum | the home for ducati owners and enthusiasts > Superbike Model Specific > 848

Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By Svensken
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 18th, 2019, 05:39 AM   #1
Member

No ducatis in the registry

 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 107
Improving shifting on my '12 848 Corse (and any other reason to take off the covers)

Two issues I have are:
1. Hard shifting, especially when "cold." Its QUITE tight for a bit, beyond just heating coolant but need to heat soak the engine for a bit before it gets a bit looser, but never what I would call "smooth." The throw is short and precise but the effort is ALWAYS there compared to my other bikes.
2. False neutrals, especially seems to be from 4th to 5th. Yeah I know, "bang it" but Ive never had this problem on my other bikes, including both another superbike and a freaking Guzzi (famous for shitty transmissions).

So planning on doing the factory pro ceramic kit:
https://motowheels.com/i-11779860-fa...it-ducati.html

But already bummed I hadnt researched these things BEFORE doing my slipper, else i would have just taken a shotgun to it and did it all while in there.

So, while Im popping a casing off and taking the bike down because its too damned hot in the SE to be on a track in leather what else should I be doing down there?
__________________
ryan stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Remove Ads
Old July 18th, 2019, 07:06 AM   #2
Senior Member

ducatis in the registry:
[848 EVO]
[1198 S]

 
jwm2k3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Boston, MA.
Posts: 3,037
I've had a few 848's and an 1198 that have had the factory quickshifter that is on your Corse.

Let's start with the fact that the gearbox design is ancient and notchy/hard to shift even when brand new. Add to that the internal shift fork can bend or break, the fork springs can and do break.

Then on top of that let's add an electronic shifter with lots of fulcrums and linkages.

The above has all caused me problems, mostly on the racetrack.

My current solution for the racebike is a direct mount GP shift, electric quickshifter made by SP Electronics out of England. No fulcrums, no linkages.

My previous 848 racebike had the internal issues. 2 broken shifter fork springs and a bent shifter fork. These problems were the cause of WAY TOO MANY false neutrals going into corners. Scary as shit when you're at full tilt.

Also, the 1st 2012 Corse I had was a streetbike and I had to be very aware of shifting it like I meant it with that sloppy factory quickshifter. If I was lazy, it would be a false neutral. If I shifted it like a man, it worked great.

Just my experience, hope that helps
__________________
Johnny
jwm2k3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2019, 07:12 AM   #3
Court Jester

No ducatis in the registry

 
Tchase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Buckley, WA, USA
Posts: 10,944
What size clutch slave cylinder are you running.

Both my bikes are shifting and going into neutral like butter now.

The factory pro-shift is a nice add but will not solve the problem with a clutch slave that is too big for easy pull on the lever.

I got these on both bikes all my problems went away..

26mm option..

https://www.bellissimoto.com/parts/c...ave-for-ducati
__________________
"What we wish, we readily believe, and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also."
Julius Caesar
Tchase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2019, 07:14 AM   #4
Court Jester

No ducatis in the registry

 
Tchase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Buckley, WA, USA
Posts: 10,944
^ I have the OEM quick shift and slipper and had the same problems you are having..
__________________
"What we wish, we readily believe, and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also."
Julius Caesar
Tchase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2019, 07:17 AM   #5
Member

No ducatis in the registry

 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 107
Stock clutch MC, but havent had any issues with it other than its weight is heavier than my MV Agusta (with a 20 year old transmission design BTW) but that isnt really an issue.

Regarding the forks, linkages and whatnot are there any relatively simple improvements to implement without pulling apart the transmission completely? Its not happening "a lot" but its enough to blow my confidence for a lap or two until I forget it. I can try and push harder but it sounds like, if those components are weak, pushing harder might just make things worse in the long run.

I dont really follow on the QS causing it. I have rearsets with a linkage on the MV (optional GP shift design but I really just wanted the pedal linked to the rearset) and it hasnt caused any problems.

On SATO rearsets and have it adjusted for a quicker throw in the hopes of making sure Im always pushing it to the stops. I know that is going to increase the effort a bit and that doesnt bother me as much. The neutrals are job #1 honestly.
__________________
ryan stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2019, 07:19 AM   #6
Court Jester

No ducatis in the registry

 
Tchase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Buckley, WA, USA
Posts: 10,944
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan stewart View Post
Stock clutch MC, but havent had any issues with it other than its weight is heavier than my MV Agusta (with a 20 year old transmission design BTW) but that isnt really an issue.

Regarding the forks, linkages and whatnot are there any relatively simple improvements to implement without pulling apart the transmission completely? Its not happening "a lot" but its enough to blow my confidence for a lap or two until I forget it. I can try and push harder but it sounds like, if those components are weak, pushing harder might just make things worse in the long run.

I dont really follow on the QS causing it. I have rearsets with a linkage on the MV (optional GP shift design but I really just wanted the pedal linked to the rearset) and it hasnt caused any problems.

On SATO rearsets and have it adjusted for a quicker throw in the hopes of making sure Im always pushing it to the stops. I know that is going to increase the effort a bit and that doesnt bother me as much. The neutrals are job #1 honestly.
Stock slave??? Thatís what Iím talking about not the MC
__________________
"What we wish, we readily believe, and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also."
Julius Caesar
Tchase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2019, 07:26 AM   #7
Member

No ducatis in the registry

 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 107
Sorry yeah slave, havent messed with any of the hydraulics (only change was to the RC2 for comfort).
__________________
ryan stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2019, 07:47 AM   #8
Court Jester

No ducatis in the registry

 
Tchase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Buckley, WA, USA
Posts: 10,944
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan stewart View Post
Sorry yeah slave, havent messed with any of the hydraulics (only change was to the RC2 for comfort).
Have you adjusted the throw in the lever?
__________________
"What we wish, we readily believe, and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also."
Julius Caesar
Tchase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2019, 10:47 AM   #9
Member

No ducatis in the registry

 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tchase View Post
Have you adjusted the throw in the lever?
Done nothing on the throw, just the starting point using the roll on the CRG. I dont usually use the lever on the upshifts anyway.
__________________
ryan stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2019, 11:12 AM   #10
Court Jester

No ducatis in the registry

 
Tchase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Buckley, WA, USA
Posts: 10,944
I'm not technically sound on this, but I've fought it and finally solved the problem and there are a few things that can compound the problem.

Even if you are not using the clutch lever the pin still engages the MC if its not adjusted properly it will cause problems.

If you put the bike on a stand engine off and ignition on, run through your gears, you'll notice you can find neutral every time. But when the engine is running if it's harder to find (a lot) you have a problem withe the lever adjustment, slave cylinder or stack height on the clutch. There a few other things but that would be along the lines of assembling wrong , like when I pulled the OEM clutch basket and the washer on the back side was stuck to it and it wasn't reinstalled with the slipper.....



Anyways my point is even if you are not using the lever it can still be in play...


Where is Shazam when we need him...
__________________
"What we wish, we readily believe, and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also."
Julius Caesar
Tchase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2019, 12:02 PM   #11
Senior Member

ducatis in the registry:
[1098]

 
Svensken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada
Posts: 538
Too little dead lever (master cylinder pushrod adjusted too tight) and the clutch will slip when hot. Too much dead lever (master cylinder pushrod adjusted too slack) and the slave has insufficient movement to fully disengage the clutch.

Another thing that happens is the plates sticking in the basket. My EVR (I know Pat1098 found this as well) tends to have drag between basket and hub even if slave moves well. This makes it particularly difficult to find Neutral with engine running.

The Factory Pro shift components really help but are a bit of work to install. Since the shifter is already an issue on these bikes, replacing the sector spring with a better one and then going through all the work of lining it all up correctly is really worth it in the end.
Tchase likes this.
__________________
'07 1098
'06 SV1000S
'05 ZZR 250 Racebike
Previous:
'96 YZF1000R
'89 EX500

Last edited by Svensken; July 18th, 2019 at 12:06 PM.
Svensken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2019, 12:05 PM   #12
Court Jester

No ducatis in the registry

 
Tchase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Buckley, WA, USA
Posts: 10,944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Svensken View Post
Too little dead lever (master cylinder pushrod adjusted too tight) and the clutch will slip when hot. Too much dead lever (master cylinder pushrod adjusted too slack) and the slave has insufficient movement to fully disengage the clutch.

Another thing that happens is the plates sticking in the basket. My EVR (I know Pat1098 found this as well) tends to have drag between basket and hub even if slave moves well. This makes it particularly difficult to find Neutral with engine running.
My new Shazam expert
__________________
"What we wish, we readily believe, and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also."
Julius Caesar
Tchase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2019, 02:01 PM   #13
Senior Member

ducatis in the registry:
[1098]

 
Svensken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada
Posts: 538
https://www.ducati.org/forums/how-to...mechanism.html
__________________
'07 1098
'06 SV1000S
'05 ZZR 250 Racebike
Previous:
'96 YZF1000R
'89 EX500
Svensken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2019, 02:03 PM   #14
Senior Member

ducatis in the registry:
[1098]

 
Svensken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada
Posts: 538
https://www.ducati.org/forums/how-to...tallation.html
__________________
'07 1098
'06 SV1000S
'05 ZZR 250 Racebike
Previous:
'96 YZF1000R
'89 EX500
Svensken is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:44 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.