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Old November 27th, 2013, 05:45 AM   #31
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^^ A big pile of personal agenda bullshit!!

Let's look at the facts. Since 1988, Ducati has won 14 WSBK Championships on trellis framed motorcycles, with motors starting with the 851 to the 1098R. The 999 model won 3 championships, the last one, 2006, by Bayliss, who won the title again, in 2008, on a 1098R. After 2008 Checa went on to win another title in 2011, on the Ducati 1098R. From 2008, thru 2012, the 1098R was winning races and Championships, a period of five years. Perhaps the longest running model success in WSBK history. In addition to the racing success, Ducati sales of the 1098 models have topped all company sales records. Matter of fact, the sales and success of the 1199 model is fair from any where near the 1098 model. Maybe that will change in the near future, but the 1098 model has set the bar very, very, high. Truly a great motorcycle design.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 08:51 AM   #32
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First off, people by Ducati Superbikes due to their looks, not their racing heritage or comfort.

Second, the Ducati homologation specials, (especially the 999 and 1098) shared very little with their production counterparts. In fact, the only bits on a 1098 factory bike which are identical to the production bike are the castings used for the cylinder and head, the valve cover and the left side case cover. Pretty much everything else on that bike is one-off Ducati corse, INCLUDING the frame/subframe/rear sets and most importantly the tank and seat.

If you get a chance to sit on a real Ducati corse factory bike, (which I have) you will notice, the seat is at least 20mm higher then it is on the production machine AND its FLAT like the 749/999. The seat is longer as a consequence as well because it gives the rider more room to move around. The tank is also a tiny bit longer, it actually sits in a different place on the bike then the production machine because its larger, it holds more fuel. Sharkskinz makes a "corse" tail section for the 848/1098/1198 series machines, its about 20mm higher (with foam pad) and flat just like the corse bikes. However, it bends under the weight of the rider, so it does feel very funny. Ducati built a special corse subframe for their tail section which supports it much better, so I never much cared for the higher "floating" sharkskinz seat, even though most of the racers I know, use it.

So no Bob, Ducati stopped making production race bikes in 2006 when they discontinued the 749R. That was the last one they made, the era of the "kit racers" ended and since then, they've been focused on building street bikes. Again, people buy bikes for looks and the 749/999 would have been MUCH more successful if they had made it less fugly in street trim. This is why I always compare the 749R to other kit race bikes, like the Triumph.

So what is a "kit racer"? Its basically a bike with racing support from the manufacturer in terms of hard-parts. Triumph offers everything from cam's, lighter valves, lighter valve springs, thinner head gaskets, electronic packages, quick shifters, slipper clutches, transmission upgrades, light-weight flywheel/stator units, etc... This is whats referred to as manufacturer racing support and its what we've been missing from Ducati since the 749R disappeared. Now all Ducati has interest in selling the consumer is carbon fiber bits, exhausts and clothing.

Bob, for being in and around Ducati Superbikes for such a long time, its scary your lack of knowledge. To even make the assumption that your 1098R is in any way shape or form remotely similar to anything raced by professionals, is just asinine.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 10:23 AM   #33
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Troller Posell writes,
And I quote

" Bob, for being in and around Ducati Superbikes for such a long time, its scary your lack of knowledge. To even make the assumption that your 1098R is in any way shape or form remotely similar to anything raced by professionals, is just asinine."

My above post was the facts of the matter concerning the 1098. No fabricated bullshit like the usual posts of Tyler Purcell. Not any "knowledge, or lack there of". No asinine assumptions,... I leave that kind of stuff to opinionated assholes like you, Tyler Purcell. Perhaps you should try to remember the internet site you are visiting as a member,.................. it is Ducati.org. Not Purcell.org
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Old November 27th, 2013, 11:50 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by tye1138 View Post
First off, people by Ducati Superbikes due to their looks, not their racing heritage or comfort.
Hey, speak for yourself! That's presumptuous and absolutely not the case with me. I bought a Ducati because I like fast bikes, I like twins, and I think the trellis framed Ducati superbikes formed a significant (and unique) chunk of motorcycle racing history that I wanted to own a piece of* before they turned their back on them and began embarrassing themselves**.

*which I do.

**which they are.

Not everyone thinks like the vain, status symbol collectors that infest California.

"First off, people b(u)y Ducati Superbikes due to their looks, not their racing heritage or comfort."

You sound like the director of marketing at Ducati.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 11:51 AM   #35
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At my race level, I can sure as hell say it's not the 848 bike design that's the weakest link.

But it does make you wonder when everyone else that's at the top of the heap are on '08+ R6s and D675s....

We'll see next season after the chassis changes and riding education. :-)
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Old November 27th, 2013, 12:27 PM   #36
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My above post was the facts of the matter concerning the 1098.
Facts in you believe to be accurate, which unfortunately makes them not facts at all.

You ridicule me on a DAILY... umm... HOURLY basis about my minuscule 4 years of riding/ownership of Ducati's. Yet in your tenure of ownership, you haven't yet figured out some extremely basic pieces of information related the machines you so love.

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No asinine assumptions,... I leave that kind of stuff to opinionated assholes like you, Tyler Purcell.
Just remember, those who put down others, are really just showing a reflection of themselves.

Someday if you wish to learn about Ducati corse and their bikes, I urge you to buy a few books on the subject. There are plenty of resources that you could study up on, to help fill in the details you're lacking to truly have an "educated" discussion on this matter.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 12:46 PM   #37
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Hey, speak for yourself! That's presumptuous and absolutely not the case with me.
I said "most", not "ALL".

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Originally Posted by redonred View Post
I bought a Ducati because I like fast bikes, I like twins, and I think the trellis framed Ducati superbikes formed a significant (and unique) chunk of motorcycle racing history that I wanted to own a piece of* before they turned their back on them and began embarrassing themselves**
Yep, thats very true. But did you take into account that MOST US riders haven't got a clue what World Superbike or MotoGP is? They aren't buying motorcycles based on racing heritage, they are buying motorcycles because their friends own them, or because of their looks. Sure, there is a small population who knows who Valentino Rossi is, but again its very small.

Yes, there are a very small group of aficionado's who would die to own a Ducati Superbike, thats part of the reason I owned all three of the major generations, so I could experience them, being a huge fan of the sport. But when I mean small population, I mean VERY small... 2% perhaps less when you take into count that 51% of ALL registered street bikes in the US are Harley Davidsons (scary, but true statistic).

So yes, I agree that some people buy bikes based on racing heritage, but if you were to walk into your local Ducati dealership and get to know the sales reps, I think you would find they know exactly why people buy Ducati's and its all about looks. I have spent SO many days helping people decide which bike to buy, back when Ducati's made basic/simple motorcycles and trying to convince someone to buy a 749/999 was like trying to convince them to pull teeth which didn't need to be pulled. Best racing heritage at the time, best bike on the showroom floor, hardest bike to sell.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 12:50 PM   #38
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I agree 99% with chicken_stripper. Where I may differ is that I found the 899 to be very much a track bike once you pop it into Race mode.
Yeah, I guess I wasn't saying the 899 would suck at the track. More that's just not it's "home". I've no doubt it would be a reasonable ride at the track, but I just think the 675R has it covered (plus you can spend the savings making it even more of a track demon).


Tye - can I ask, in all seriousness, why you bring up your racing pedigree and that 749R in every thread?
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Old November 27th, 2013, 12:55 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tye1138 View Post
Facts in you believe to be accurate, which unfortunately makes them not facts at all.

You ridicule me on a DAILY... umm... HOURLY basis about my minuscule 4 years of riding/ownership of Ducati's. Yet in your tenure of ownership, you haven't yet figured out some extremely basic pieces of information related the machines you so love.



Just remember, those who put down others, are really just showing a reflection of themselves.

Someday if you wish to learn about Ducati corse and their bikes, I urge you to buy a few books on the subject. There are plenty of resources that you could study up on, to help fill in the details you're lacking to truly have an "educated" discussion on this matter.
Here is the bottom line, Purcell, I have in my garage, two Ducatis, a 1098R and an 848, both of which I own, race,.... and work on everyday!
Everyday I also talk to friends who are professional Ducati tuners/techs, as well as friends who ride and/or race all manner of Ducatis, from classic air cooled to the newest water cooled. Everyday, it is what I do, it is all about Ducati motorcycles. In addition this year I raced my Ducati 1098R in 10 races in a National Series, of which I finished 4th overall in the National points, behind Pat Mooney and Shane Turpin. In addition, I have owned and raced Ducati motorcycles since before you were born. So I don't come by my statements from a position of lack of experience.
You on the other hand, by your own admission, owned and raced a Ducati 749 for a couple of years at a local track, won a Novice title, sold the bike, bought an 848, wrecked it, parted it out, and haven't owned a Ducati in the last 4 years, almost five years. Not exactly a Ducati enthusiast!!! But yet you come on to this forum and attempt to establish yourself as a Ducati expert!!!! Really???? Truth is, the only "expertise" is your ability to type a bunch of "self serving bullshit".
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Old November 27th, 2013, 01:27 PM   #40
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Tye - can I ask, in all seriousness, why you bring up your racing pedigree and that 749R in every thread?
Its the first and only bike Ducati ever released to the public, which had full race geometry stock. Plus, its also the only bike ever released by Ducati to the public, which had a racing kit available. When I mean racing kit, I mean basically replacing everything but the frame, swing arm and motor. You name it, they had it and THAT to me is what made Ducati so special. They wanted to race WSS and at the time, the rules were the parts kit needed to be available to the public and likewise, there were TUNS of people who bought 749R's and modified them into RS machines.

Plus, it was the only bike I ever owned which was very close to the factory racer and it was the definition of a race bike.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 01:50 PM   #41
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Its the first and only bike Ducati ever released to the public, which had full race geometry stock. Plus, its also the only bike ever released by Ducati to the public, which had a racing kit available. When I mean racing kit, I mean basically replacing everything but the frame, swing arm and motor. You name it, they had it and THAT to me is what made Ducati so special. They wanted to race WSS and at the time, the rules were the parts kit needed to be available to the public and likewise, there were TUNS of people who bought 749R's and modified them into RS machines.

Plus, it was the only bike I ever owned which was very close to the factory racer and it was the definition of a race bike.
I get that. I get that it's a nice bike. But I dont understand why you inject it and your racing pedigree into every thread, regardless of the topic man.

This was just a comparo on 899 vs 675R, and you managed to derail the conversation into...

"unless you've had the experience riding a real thoroughbred race bike like the 749R, just tooling around on the streets, isn't going to give you enough information for an educated understanding of how the bike will perform at high speeds"

You have to understand man, you're going to keep putting people offside if you keep belittling and otherwise discounting others experiences like this - and often in a way that bears little to no relevance on the OP's topic. Saying that people cant possibly appreciate high speed track performance unless they've raced a track-spec 749R or similar is not just demeaning, but also absurd.

Just my two cents man.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 02:55 PM   #42
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Yea, I'm done arguing.

Last edited by tye1138; November 27th, 2013 at 03:16 PM.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 02:58 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by chicken_stripper View Post
You have to understand man, you're going to keep putting people offside if you keep belittling and otherwise discounting others experiences like this - and often in a way that bears little to no relevance on the OP's topic. Saying that people cant possibly appreciate high speed track performance unless they've raced a track-spec 749R or similar is not just demeaning, but also absurd.
If someone has no experience in riding a real race bike, then those people can't comment on what it takes to make a real race bike can they?

So earlier in this thread, someone said the 848 makes a great race bike, but do they know what a real race bike is like? If they don't, then how can they say the 848 makes a great race bike?

Does that make any sense?
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Old November 27th, 2013, 03:03 PM   #44
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Jeez, let it go Purcell,....... go back to paintball, or scuba diving, or dirtbike stuff or what ever!!! Your words are a bore.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 03:09 PM   #45
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Your words are a bore.
No Bob, you're LIES are a bore. The only thing you bring to this forum is arguments and thread destroying comments.
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