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Old November 27th, 2013, 10:54 PM   #61
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Yea, you've gotta love screamers to buy the 675. I find most Ducati riders to not quite get the whole screamer thing and likewise, on the street it can get tiresome, especially sitting at stoplights. The music a decent exhaust on a Ducati makes just idling is wonderful, especially with an earlier model's open dry clutch. You won't experience any of that with the Daytona 675.

With ear plugs, the 675's stock exhaust is pretty quiet, it sounds like a smooth Japanese sport bike with a slighter lower tone. But with a full race exhaust, at full-tilt boogie, it sounds great, just don't let it idle or it will blend-in to the bikes around you.

The sucky part is that reviewers don't have anything to compare the 899 to. From my perspective, its far better to compare it to a liter bike, then a 600 or 675 for that matter. So the reviews are kinda skewed because the 899 has the best electronics package and most motor of any "middleweight" bike, yet its not a middleweight. Its also 2 - 3 grand more then its competitors, yet missing a slipper clutch.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 11:04 PM   #62
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I agree with that. I actually almost bought a Daytona but convinced myself the triple just wasn't my style, and thank god I did. Don't get me wrong the engine is a very good and almost bullet proof engine but it doesn't suit everybody. I wish my bike had a dry clutch. Still looking for a conversion to make it one. I still think the Daytona is a great bike. Just not my style and maybe the OP will like the bike more than I could. The money he saves over the 899 could be invested into some mods to make it a dedicated track bike. And a very good one at that. Just my .02


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Old November 28th, 2013, 07:15 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tye1138 View Post

The sucky part is that reviewers don't have anything to compare the 899 to. From my perspective, its far better to compare it to a liter bike, then a 600 or 675 for that matter. So the reviews are kinda skewed because the 899 has the best electronics package and most motor of any "middleweight" bike, yet its not a middleweight. Its also 2 - 3 grand more then its competitors, yet missing a slipper clutch.
Wouldn't they be comparing the 899 to the GSXR750 and MV F3800?

Is it absolutely confirmed no slipper clutch?

Finally, in MCN's review of the GSXR750, 899 and 675R, the 899 on the big track posted a time 2 seconds or so quicker than the 675R. It was quicker on the smaller track too but don't quote me on the numbers.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 07:26 AM   #64
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We won't actually know if it has or doesn't have one until somebody tests it like it needs to be tested. The EBC could help it so much that it doesn't need a slipper to function right. And since it's the baby panigale it makes sense n my mind to not have a slipper


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Old November 28th, 2013, 08:57 AM   #65
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Wouldn't they be comparing the 899 to the GSXR750 and MV F3800?
I think the GSXR750 is pretty under-powered, it always has been. Maybe the MV would be good to test it against, but I doubt its anywhere near the power of the 899cc twin.

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Is it absolutely confirmed no slipper clutch?
Ducati says on their web site, it does not have a slipper. The magazine reviewers stated how wonderful the slipper is and the manual talks about an electronic aid which helps the bike enter the corner without hopping. Another 899 member here stated his does not have a slipper, he couldn't get it to engage when downshifting fast. So perhaps it doesn't have a slipper, it just keeps the throttle open on corner entry like the 1199 does and that MAY be enough to help.

I know a few motorcycle reviewers and they tend to be very easy with the clutch, as in, they don't expect bikes to have slippers, so when they don't bounce all over the place under braking, they generally are excited.

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Finally, in MCN's review of the GSXR750, 899 and 675R, the 899 on the big track posted a time 2 seconds or so quicker than the 675R. It was quicker on the smaller track too but don't quote me on the numbers.
Yea, don't doubt that at all. Power is king at SOME tracks.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 10:52 AM   #66
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With regards to whether or not it has a slipper... which is funny that it's even a mystery (shows how credible the review is).

I find that with my DP slipper, when I have my clutch lever pulled back to downshift, if I downshift early enough to engage the slipper, I can feel the "click" in the tension of the clutch lever. Which makes sense as the mechanical action is transferred up through the clutch fluid to the lever.

I know it's a completely different clutch on the 899/1199 (also a Japanese sourced part) so may not apply at all, but it's something for the 899 riders on here to look for when trying to figure out what kind of clutch the bike they just bought has.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 11:02 AM   #67
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Then again the clutch they have could be like the ones in the monsters. A slipper "style" that actually isn't a slipper. I did a quick little test on mine and although it doesn't have a slipper the rear wheel doesn't hop or try to skid so that may be another "theory" about the clutch in the 899.


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Old November 28th, 2013, 02:52 PM   #68
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Just an FYI, slippers don't work at low RPM's. They need the rear end to drag in order to engage. So its very difficult to test on the street unless you stage it.

What you gotta do is find a clean straight piece of tarmac, preferably not a highway or busy city street. Bring the bikes speed up to about 60 - 70mph or so. Try to be in a lower gear, near the redline of the machine. Then grab a whole bunch of front brake and downshift at least 2 gears very quickly, click, click and release the clutch.

On a bike with a slipper, the rear may go side a tiny bit, but there should not be any hopping. The dead giveaway is the RPM's not going crazy high, they should stay pretty stagnant at the same place you started the braking and downshifting. On a bike without a slipper, this will be impossible to do and the moment you try it, you will immediately know it was a bad idea. Naaa... its ok, the rear will just hop and it will feel all out of shape.

I know it may sound like a vicious thing to do on a brand new bike, so wait until the break-in is done. But once you feel safe and can find a nice flat straight place to do the test, run it and lets see what the results are.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 05:49 PM   #69
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Just an FYI, slippers don't work at low RPM's. They need the rear end to drag in order to engage. So its very difficult to test on the street unless you stage it.

What you gotta do is find a clean straight piece of tarmac, preferably not a highway or busy city street. Bring the bikes speed up to about 60 - 70mph or so. Try to be in a lower gear, near the redline of the machine. Then grab a whole bunch of front brake and downshift at least 2 gears very quickly, click, click and release the clutch.

On a bike with a slipper, the rear may go side a tiny bit, but there should not be any hopping. The dead giveaway is the RPM's not going crazy high, they should stay pretty stagnant at the same place you started the braking and downshifting. On a bike without a slipper, this will be impossible to do and the moment you try it, you will immediately know it was a bad idea. Naaa... its ok, the rear will just hop and it will feel all out of shape.

I know it may sound like a vicious thing to do on a brand new bike, so wait until the break-in is done. But once you feel safe and can find a nice flat straight place to do the test, run it and lets see what the results are.
I agree that this is the best/ultimate test, and a good test for testing performance of a slipper clutch, especially the ones that you can change different settings like the Panigale, that way you can see what works for you best. However, if you're just trying to see if it has a slipper or not, it's a bit overkill. If you've been on bikes with no slippers and some with slippers, you should be able to tell even riding on the street without pushing too hard. My 1198 has the stock clutch, and when I test-rode a Panigale earlier this year, it was night and day difference. I could tell it had a slipper the first time i downshifted. Now I'm sure the difference wouldn't be night and day between the 1199 and the 899, because they're both wet clutches and they have EBC which helps, but still...
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Old November 28th, 2013, 06:19 PM   #70
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Yea, the EBC may help more then I give it credit for. I haven't ridden the 899 yet and its the only bike I know of with the system and potentially no slipper. But whatever test mule I do ride, will be for sure be ridden hard. I will perform that test I talked about and give some details.

I'll try and do a test ride before years end, my Ducati buddies have Panigale's or older bikes, none of them have any intentions on buying the 899, so to a dealer I will have to go!
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Old November 28th, 2013, 07:02 PM   #71
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wait...you have friends that have Ducatis?? how is this possible?
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Old November 28th, 2013, 07:09 PM   #72
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wait...you have friends that have Ducatis?? how is this possible?
Which part, the friends part or the Ducati part? ROFL!!

Yea, believe it or not, I talked a lot of people into buying Ducati's and I also service them, which keeps me riding other people's Ducati's all the time.

Its funny to swing a leg over my friends 748R (which seems to constantly need work) because I rode that bike for such a long time and it seems so foreign to me now.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 09:15 PM   #73
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all of it...the part where your friends with Ducatis are still friends with you considering how much you bash on the brand and some of the people who own Ducatis...a bit baffling to me. Or do you not do that in person, just on forums??
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Old November 28th, 2013, 10:59 PM   #74
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all of it...the part where your friends with Ducatis are still friends with you considering how much you bash on the brand and some of the people who own Ducatis...a bit baffling to me. Or do you not do that in person, just on forums??
Ohh, I don't hate Ducati's, I dislike the direction the brand has gone, but how can you truly hate them? Plus, only a few of my friends have Panigale's, everyone else has the more "classic" bikes, ones that even I would be honored to have in my garage today. I would love to have an S4RS as my daily rider, its on a very short list of "must own" bikes for me.

Trust me, I bash on every bike and brand, including KTM of which I own 4 of right now. You don't own FOUR bikes from a single manufacturer unless you really, really like them. But that doesn't stop me from bashing the living shit out of a few bikes they make because like Ducati, I know they can do better.

See, I hate it when brands in one hand, make brilliant bikes and in the other, make absolute shit. In the past, when Ducati was platform sharing, all their bikes had an intrinsic value to them. Everything from the 2 valve monsters to the 4 valve Superbikes, had a similar build quality. Its one of the biggest reasons I loved the brand so much, they figured out how to make simple, mechanical bikes for enthusiasts to get their hands dirty. Up until very recently, they were by far the easiest bikes to work on and that to me, is part of the ownership experience. Being able to work on the bike is just as important as riding it.

Now, Ducati like every other brand, seeking to draw customers through feature-rich machines, rather then being a smaller company, making the same ol' brilliantly simplistic products the Ducatisti have come to love. Yes, there are many Ducatisti who will buy and own anything Ducati makes as if everything they touched was gold. But for me, todays bikes are so fine-tuned, they're missing that hard edge I love about the classics. If you want a smooth, quiet, reliable bike, go buy a Japanese bike. If you want a hard-edged machine built from racing pedigree, that was the void Ducati filled. The Panigale still kinda fills the void, but nothing like the classics. When you swing your leg over a 916 or any of the older superbikes, you're literally riding history. When you swing your leg over a Panigale, you're riding a piece of art and nothing more.

The sad part is, as the older bikes keep getting older and parts become more and more difficult to get, what made Ducati great, will be lost to their own ignorance. It happened with car's in the 80's and 90's, now its happening to motorcycles. The ever marching forward of progress has lessened the enthusiasts connectivity to the machine. BMW's electric steering and exhaust sounds pumped through the speakers of the stereo to mimmic what the car "should" sound like. Great example of the future of motorcycling... only I think its going to be worse then that, as in no sound at all.
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Old November 29th, 2013, 04:47 AM   #75
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Ohh, I don't hate Ducati's, I dislike the direction the brand has gone, but how can you truly hate them? Plus, only a few of my friends have Panigale's, everyone else has the more "classic" bikes, ones that even I would be honored to have in my garage today. I would love to have an S4RS as my daily rider, its on a very short list of "must own" bikes for me.

Trust me, I bash on every bike and brand, including KTM of which I own 4 of right now. You don't own FOUR bikes from a single manufacturer unless you really, really like them. But that doesn't stop me from bashing the living shit out of a few bikes they make because like Ducati, I know they can do better.

See, I hate it when brands in one hand, make brilliant bikes and in the other, make absolute shit. In the past, when Ducati was platform sharing, all their bikes had an intrinsic value to them. Everything from the 2 valve monsters to the 4 valve Superbikes, had a similar build quality. Its one of the biggest reasons I loved the brand so much, they figured out how to make simple, mechanical bikes for enthusiasts to get their hands dirty. Up until very recently, they were by far the easiest bikes to work on and that to me, is part of the ownership experience. Being able to work on the bike is just as important as riding it.

Now, Ducati like every other brand, seeking to draw customers through feature-rich machines, rather then being a smaller company, making the same ol' brilliantly simplistic products the Ducatisti have come to love. Yes, there are many Ducatisti who will buy and own anything Ducati makes as if everything they touched was gold. But for me, todays bikes are so fine-tuned, they're missing that hard edge I love about the classics. If you want a smooth, quiet, reliable bike, go buy a Japanese bike. If you want a hard-edged machine built from racing pedigree, that was the void Ducati filled. The Panigale still kinda fills the void, but nothing like the classics. When you swing your leg over a 916 or any of the older superbikes, you're literally riding history. When you swing your leg over a Panigale, you're riding a piece of art and nothing more.

The sad part is, as the older bikes keep getting older and parts become more and more difficult to get, what made Ducati great, will be lost to their own ignorance. It happened with car's in the 80's and 90's, now its happening to motorcycles. The ever marching forward of progress has lessened the enthusiasts connectivity to the machine. BMW's electric steering and exhaust sounds pumped through the speakers of the stereo to mimmic what the car "should" sound like. Great example of the future of motorcycling... only I think its going to be worse then that, as in no sound at all.

Whew.
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