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-   -   Electrical issues? Upgrade your 1X98/848 Voltage Regulator. (https://www.ducati.org/forums/how-tos/96625-electrical-issues-upgrade-your-1x98-848-voltage-regulator.html)

VJ020 June 25th, 2017 05:01 PM

Electrical issues? Upgrade your 1X98/848 Voltage Regulator.
 
***If you are not a member, you can contact me at [email protected]***

List of Parts:
Triumph Harness T2500676 (affiliated link: https://goo.gl/dYFcy4)
FH020 Regulator (Anywhere on ebay, or from a reputable store: https://goo.gl/DsxN7m)


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4370/...79332cf7_z.jpg

If you have owned a 1x98/848 long enough, or any bike long enough, one of the most common part to fail first is the voltage regulator.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4401/...4f240d3a_z.jpg


Cause of Failure:
1) Usually, but not always, regulator especially ones with older designs like the ones on the 1x98/848 overheat. The circuitry melts and can not function properly.

Why the regulator overheats:
1) Sitting in traffic (ducati issued a recall and provided a band-aid solution for these bikes in terms of a metal shield from the heat)
2) The power generated by the stator is not being used up and the VR has to work harder to get rid of it (example: Switching incandescent bulbs for LED ones that consume less power, switching off your headlights, etc.

Symptoms of a failing voltage regulator include:
1) High (>14.8V) or Low (<13.0V) charging voltage when the engine is running
2) Flickering dashboard screen/instrument panel
3) Dashboard shuts off at certain RPMs
3) Dead battery that was otherwise new/healthy
4) Headlights/Tailight shutting off randomly at certain RPMs

Detailed Background (adapted from DEcosse on triumphrat.net)
MOSFET R/R are a great reliability improvement on the OEM SCR type R/R, in its own right as the R/R device. However they do nothing to add reliability to the stator, whereas the Series Style greatly enhances this aspect. A Series R/R significantly reduces the load on the stator which will run close to half of the current as it would with a Shunt R/R (whether that be SCR or MOSFET) Ergo the stator runs less hot and reliability is significantly improved.


This mod applies equally to most modern bikes regardless of the marque/model. The defining factor regardless of motorcycle brand/year/model is that your bike has the discreet 3-phase Stator/Generator and Rectifier/Regulator arrangement

As a preliminary, acknowledgements due to OldnDumb and CLB for their previous inputs on this subject.

This is about replacing the standard equipment Regulator/Rectifier with a more efficient component. You can do this in event of failure rather than replace with the same stock component, or you can even do as a preventive measure if desired.

As a prologue, let me introduce a basic troubleshooting process to determine whether you have a charging system failure.

Diagnostics:
A good Multi-meter is a pre-requisite.
Record your battery voltage under the follow conditions
1) Ignition off, unloaded battery.
2) Ignition on, headlights on, not running
3) Bike started, running at idle

For condition 1, should be at least in the high 12.x range if fully charged.

In condition 2, your voltage should not drop much below 12.0 at worst. (It may continue to drop — hopefully slowly! — as your lights will be discharging it. However this should be a slow decline)
If it does drop immediately into the 11’s, your battery is insufficiently charged — if it was just charged from a battery charger however, then it indicates your battery no longer has sufficient capacity to retain charge/supply current to load and should be replaced.

Condition 3 is what we are most interested in with respect to charging capability.
Voltage should be at least in the 13’s at all engine rpm. You may detect it will fall off slightly as you raise engine rpm. This is not atypical performance. A simple mod that can enhance your charging voltage to the battery can be achieved by this modification outlined in this thread. That should give you performance in the 14V+ range.

What if you have less than 13V?
First thing to check is the fuse in the charging circuit. Ask on the forum for your particular model which one you should check if in doubt.

Next, examine the wires and connectors between the stator output and the R/R input (three wire harness and connectors) — are these charred/melted due to excessive heating? This is fairly common result of poor connection between the mating terminals. See later in thread for examples of this issue & suggested replacements.

A ‘cold’ resistance check for shorted diode/SCR:
Unplug both input & output plugs from R/R;
With your meter set to read resistance (use a diode test if the your multi-meter has one), test from each pin of the three pin plug, to both the red & black wired pins of the 4-pin plug; NONE of these should read short circuit (zero resistance); depending which way you bias the test leads, you may get some reading (from the forward bias of the component) but it must absolutely not be a short. If you see a short on any of these readings the R/R is defective.

Next, do a resistance check on the stator (check at the cable connector going back towards the stator itself). This test is typically unlikely to show any definitive issue, whether good or bad - unless there is a complete open circuit to one pin, perhaps indicating broken wire connection
Some guides suggest you can see a difference between the readings if there is a burned coil - highly unlikely that you have a meter that is capable of differentiating.
So really just looking for basic continuity here.
Measure between the three respective combinations of the three pins:
1-2
2-3
3-1
This time each of these should measure almost short circuit (very low resistance in order or about 1 ohm)

This next check is probably the simplest/quickest way of determining a stator problem
- in majority of cases a bad stator will be indicated by failing following test:
Check resistance from any one pin to the engine ground terminal — this should not read any indication — maximum resistance or open-circuit.
If you read ‘short’ in that last test, then your stator is bad.
(if open, it is not quite guaranteed your stator is good however - but in majority of cases a failed stator will fail this isolation test)

Check the AC voltage output from the stator with engine running:
Leave stator disconnected from the R/R and start the engines.
With meter set to read AC Volts check
1-2
2-3
3-1
All three should be the same value — any significant difference of one reading will indicate a bad phase and the stator is probably defective.
At idle this should be ~ 20V* and rise to ~ 70V* at 5K rpm.
I hesitate to use absolute numbers here as this can be different between models and test equipment and especially the engine rpm!
What you are looking for is same value between phases and like increase on each phase as rpm increases.
If any of the above tests raises suspicion, pull the cover & inspect the stator. It is simple to do and can set your mind at ease by seeing what it looks like. Hopefully NOT with 1/3 of it a black charred mess!

If you have to replace the stator and R/R, especially because of a shorted R/R and excess current drain, be especially careful to ensure that your wiring has not been compromised. Replace any cable &/or connector plug that is not in optimum condition.


Now on to the alternative R/R replacement

Preface: When this thread first written, there really wasn't a good Series Regulator widely available as a replacement candidate. Now there are a couple of options that are in play.
This thread is read by many non-Triumph owners so I will define the replacement strategy into two groups

1: If your bike marque/model generally has a robust stator with low failure rate amongst the population, then MOSFET Regulator remains a good reliability improvement for high-failure SCR Shunt Regulators.

2. If your bike marque/model suffers from a relatively high failure rate in the general population, then MOSFET Regulator will do NOTHING to improve this situation and selection of a Series* style Regulator becomes a much better choice.

* The short version is that a Series Regulator will run much lower current in the stator and so it will have the stator itself producing lower dissipated power, run cooler and be more reliable.
Generally, a much better device regarding the reliability of the stator. The only downside - until recently - has been cost vs good value MOSFET Shunt units. However that 'value' is achieved if stator replacement does not have to be added to the equation!

For more on Series Regulators read on down towards bottom of thread.

MOSFET SHUNT REGULATORS

Best widely available MOSFET Shunt R/R on the market today is the Shindengen FH012AA (and superceded by the FH020AA) used on the late (06+) Yamaha FJR, 07+ Yamaha R1 among others
What makes it better is that is a MOSFET controlled device rather than the crude SCR shunt type that is on most bikes until recently and also is a 50A rated device.
MUCH better voltage regulation and runs cooler too due to more efficient devices and control circuitry.
* Recently superseded by FH020

The SCR shunt type consumes more energy in the Regulator itself than the bike is using and dumps a ton of current into the heatsink (feel yours & just see how hot those things run!!!! - don't touch it - you'll burn yourself - seriously!) The problem is exacerbated because their efficiency goes even lower when they get HOT so it's a vicious circle. Heat is the number 1 killer of these devices.
Incidentally its a misconception that shunt type work harder with increased load i.e. higher-wattage lights, heated vests etc - actually, the higher the load on the output, the less work the shunt regulator does in dumping that excess energy and will actually run cooler!!

The FET has extremely low resistance in conducting state and this results in a lower dissipated power from the device while conducting load current, as opposed to the SCR which shunts the maximum current across a significant volt drop, resulting in a higher dissipated power - and resulting temperature, much more so than the FET device.



The Solution

When your regulator fails or is about to fail, you have two options. Replace it with the same one or retrofit a newer model.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4442/...ed02fefc_z.jpg

I chose the latter by upgrading mine to the newer Shindengen MOSFET FH020 used by nearly all bikes in the market currently (R1, S1000RR, Panigale, etc.). A quick search on the internet will reveal that the earlier model FH012 is commonly used too. The FH020 is the newer and updated model of that.

The Ducati Panigale FH020 part number is: 540.4.030.1B


Retrofitting a slightly larger and completely different type of voltage regulator to your bike might seem like a daunting task. There are two things you need to do in order for it work:
1) Wiring (T2500676)
2) Mounting

Wiring
Fortunately for us, Triumph has already taken care of item number 1 during the recall on their bikes when they also retrofitted their bikes with a updated regulator. In their recall, they provided a small plug n play harness to make the entire retrofit job easier without any soldering/splicing. This harness is readily available at all Triumph dealership for $10 and chance (cheaper than sourcing just the plugs out yourself!) The part number is: T2500676
http://www.cycleterminal.com/Shinden...76-harness.jpg

Mounting
Mounting the larger and newer regulator requires a little custom work. You could easily mount the new regulator by fabricating an adapter bracket out of aluminum from your local hardware store.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4339/...a644376e_z.jpg


However, I decided to go a bit further and make a permanent solution in the form of a CNC cut carbon fiber bracket.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4393/...96f12137_z.jpg

Carbon fiber offers a couple advantages - stronger, lighter and more importantly it shield heat better than metal. All of which ensure the new voltage regulator is further protected from the heat radiating from the header/engine.


With all that done, it was as simple as tightening everything down and you’re done.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4358/...c33da2f7_z.jpg

Of course I can't leave anything alone so I ceramic coated the metal heat shield as well. Hope that helps!

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4388/...73ee10b4_z.jpg



Disclaimer:
VJ020 cannot guarantee against improper use or unauthorized modifications of this information. VJ020 assumes no liability for damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this thread. Use this information at your own risk. VJ020 recommends safe practices when working on vehicles and or with tools. No information contained in this video shall create any expressed or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage, or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or from the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not VJ020.

jaywahr July 11th, 2017 10:02 PM

VJ020,

Great write-up! How much to make another carbon fiber bracket and ship it out to Michigan, zip code 49505?

orionengnr July 14th, 2017 05:16 PM

That was an excellent write-up, and I'm second in line as a customer for a carbon bracket.

I own an S4RS, so the bracket is probably different from an 1X98, but I'd be happy to take what you have and adapt it.

If you could punch out a "generic" CF bracket with big holes for lightness :) and mounting holes to accommodate the aforementioned R/R... for say $20-ish...
Let the buyer drill for frame mounting and supply the clamps or ty-wraps...) I bet you'd sell a bunch of them. I have six bikes and all but the S1000RR and the 675 would likely benefit from this.
One at a time, with the Ducati up first, and the Cagiva second. I've felt the temp of the Ducati's RR through the seat on a hot day. Thought it would melt through the seat.

(Note to self...start scouring eBay for spare S1000RR and Triumph R/Rs...)

Subscribing, and hoping...

Thanks again, Rich in TX

WiscoDuc August 20th, 2017 07:55 AM

Someone re-post pics of this bracket please...

orionengnr August 25th, 2017 05:31 PM

Thank you for posting this.
I ordered the Triumph wiring harness last week, arrived this week.
Bought a MOSFET R/R on eBay, arrived today.
Looking forward to installing all tomorrow on the S4RS.

...And then buying another of each for my Cagiva Gran Canyon (ST2 engine/electrics).

VJ020 August 29th, 2017 11:31 AM

I am so sorry guys I didn't know photobucket updated their policy and pulled off all the photos unless I paid for their subscription. Regardless, all is fixed now!

Also sorry for not checking in on this thread. First and second batch orders have been completed for members who pm'd me earlier. Private message me if you would like to make a custom bracket with specific dimensions or if you would like one for your 1X98/848. Thanks!

VJ020 August 29th, 2017 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiscoDuc (Post 1105954)
Someone re-post pics of this bracket please...

All fixed!

VJ020 August 29th, 2017 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orionengnr (Post 1085658)
That was an excellent write-up...

Thanks for the kind words!
The carbon fiber is pricey but they do offer significant heat shielding from the headers as I have found when I took readings of temperature before and after the carbon fiber bracket was installed and the engine idling away at 95 degrees celsius (without a belly pan).

orionengnr August 29th, 2017 06:41 PM

Thanks again.

For S4R/S4RS (and probably other Monster) owners:
I mounted the eBay BMW S1000RR MOSFET RR and the Triumph wiring harness yesterday. Functionally, works perfectly--13.9 VDC. And runs cool.

With the wiring connectors pointing aft and the RR bolted to the original frame mount (with the RH bolt only) the seat will not drop into position. Arghhh...

Either have to cut away at the front of the paperwork/toolkit box under the seat or find another mounting spot for the RR.

Third option is to fit a Sargent seat (fortunately, I just happen to have one...)

Already bought another BMW MOSFET RR on eBay and and ordered another Triumph harness for the Gran Canyon. That will require some wiring mods...hope to have the parts to take that on this weekend.

VJ020 August 30th, 2017 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orionengnr (Post 1110593)
Thanks again.

For S4R/S4RS (and probably other Monster) owners:
I mounted the eBay BMW S1000RR MOSFET RR and the Triumph wiring harness yesterday. Functionally, works perfectly--13.9 VDC. And runs cool.


Let's see some pictures!!

MNDuc1198S September 4th, 2017 06:59 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Thank you for the excellent write up. I followed your instructions but decided to extend the wires and relocate the unit to the other side away from the major heat source.

greg328 September 4th, 2017 05:47 PM

What is the price for your custom carbon fiber mounting bracket, for my 1098?

Greg
Austin TX

VJ020 September 5th, 2017 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNDuc1198S (Post 1112905)
Thank you for the excellent write up. I followed your instructions but decided to extend the wires and relocate the unit to the other side away from the major heat source.



That's brilliant! The FH020 generates a lot less heat into the fins as they work via a different principle.

I thought about doing it the same as you but was just a bit worried about adding extra wires to the already weak charging system and also wanted to keep the weight down low. But looks like it's working well. Well done!

bstar360 September 8th, 2017 08:13 AM

I'm a little confused is this Shindengen MOSFET FH020 a series style R/R that runs cooler and works better?

VJ020 September 8th, 2017 03:33 PM

It's a shunt style, same as the ones being used on panigale.

If you have unlimited budget I strongly recommend upgrading to the newest SH847 series style regulator. Since they are a serial type instead of shunting excess current, they can shut off the stator when there is excess current reducing heat/load on the stator (improving longevity) and free up lost horsepower.

It is not without cons, however. It is about double the price of a FH020 and significantly larger and heavier. Fitment might be a problem and there has been no proven results on them yet as they are designed for cruiser bikes in mind. They have not been tested on sport bikes yet (with the significantly higher RPM ranges). Previously the SH775 predecessor of the 847 were fitted on sport bikes and the higher RPMs destroyed them.


The primary reason why sport bikes like S1000RR, R1 and Panigales haven't adopted 847 in my opinion is because of its sheer size, the smaller battery/less electrical accessories often fitted to sport bikes, and sport bikes often ridden at higher speeds (so heat is less of an issue)


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