I'ts official.. - ducati.org forum | the home for ducati owners and enthusiasts

Remember me
Login  |   Register

ducati.org forum | the home for ducati owners and enthusiasts > Speed > Racing

Like Tree11Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 18th, 2019, 09:56 AM   #1
Court Jester

No ducatis in the registry

 
Tchase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Buckley, WA, USA
Posts: 11,365
I'ts official..

They couldn't wait for Lorenzo to leave
Attached Images
 
__________________
"What we wish, we readily believe, and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also."
Julius Caesar
Tchase is offline   Reply With Quote
Remove Ads
Old November 18th, 2019, 11:05 AM   #2
Senior Member

No ducatis in the registry

 
HajiHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Western NY
Posts: 2,763
color me shocked!
__________________
Is this thing on?
HajiHunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2019, 05:13 PM   #3
Senior Member

ducatis in the registry:
[848 EVO]

 
cbr6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: virginia
Posts: 858
Alex will be crushed on track like all the others by Marc.
cbr6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2019, 05:16 PM   #4
Court Jester

No ducatis in the registry

 
Tchase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Buckley, WA, USA
Posts: 11,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbr6 View Post
Alex will be crushed on track like all the others by Marc.
A lot of folks are saying this.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say he’s going to be just like his brother. Mark hasn’t changed all that much, yes he is a better rider but still pulls dick moves all the time.

His brother has the same father, the same drive, the same head start, I think Alex will be successful over time and lots of crashes like his big brother.

We might even get a side benefit of sibling rivalry letting other riders take advantage.
JohnR likes this.
__________________
"What we wish, we readily believe, and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also."
Julius Caesar
Tchase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2019, 04:19 PM   #5
Senior Member

ducatis in the registry:
[848 EVO]

 
cbr6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: virginia
Posts: 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tchase View Post
A lot of folks are saying this.

Iím going to go out on a limb and say heís going to be just like his brother. Mark hasnít changed all that much, yes he is a better rider but still pulls dick moves all the time.

His brother has the same father, the same drive, the same head start, I think Alex will be successful over time and lots of crashes like his big brother.

We might even get a side benefit of sibling rivalry letting other riders take advantage.
The only way I think Alex becomes Moto GP champ is to not race against Marc. Fabio, Rins, & Maverick will be Marcs chief competition for at least the next 5 years. Honda was able to get DORNA to change the rules to allow Marc to come from Moto 2 to a factory ride. That was not allowed before Marc, you would have to go from Moto 2 to a satellite ride first. Alex will probably win races, but it won't be easy. He's not a Vale, Marc, Wayne, Wayne, (yes 2 Waynes) Mick, Kevin, Jorge. As long as Marc stays healthy he will stay dominant for at least the next five years, Rins and Suzuki will improve and be a threat, same with Fabio & Maverick with Yamaha. Ducati could really use Jorge to be partnered with Jack Miller on the factory squad. I think Franco Morbideli is one to watch. I think Marc will let Alex see his data and give him advice but at the end of the day Alex will still have to ride the bike on his own and I don't see Marc giving anyone a win.
JohnR likes this.
cbr6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2019, 04:40 PM   #6
Court Jester

No ducatis in the registry

 
Tchase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Buckley, WA, USA
Posts: 11,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbr6 View Post
The only way I think Alex becomes Moto GP champ is to not race against Marc. Fabio, Rins, & Maverick will be Marcs chief competition for at least the next 5 years. Honda was able to get DORNA to change the rules to allow Marc to come from Moto 2 to a factory ride. That was not allowed before Marc, you would have to go from Moto 2 to a satellite ride first. Alex will probably win races, but it won't be easy. He's not a Vale, Marc, Wayne, Wayne, (yes 2 Waynes) Mick, Kevin, Jorge. As long as Marc stays healthy he will stay dominant for at least the next five years, Rins and Suzuki will improve and be a threat, same with Fabio & Maverick with Yamaha. Ducati could really use Jorge to be partnered with Jack Miller on the factory squad. I think Franco Morbideli is one to watch. I think Marc will let Alex see his data and give him advice but at the end of the day Alex will still have to ride the bike on his own and I don't see Marc giving anyone a win.
Family mind games is going to be a big factor.
__________________
"What we wish, we readily believe, and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also."
Julius Caesar
Tchase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2019, 06:50 PM   #7
Senior Member

No ducatis in the registry

 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 344
I am not sure how the MotoGP season will play out this year but this thread gets 100% for the talking points raised!!! I am guessing Marc may have another winning season but the civil rivalry between he and his brother could be epic - in a good way....I am still a Rossi fan hoping Yamaha can find more power in the future....will see...

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
Tchase likes this.
JohnR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2019, 07:01 PM   #8
Court Jester

No ducatis in the registry

 
Tchase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Buckley, WA, USA
Posts: 11,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
I am not sure how the MotoGP season will play out this year but this thread gets 100% for the talking points raised!!! I am guessing Marc may have another winning season but the civil rivalry between he and his brother could be epic - in a good way....I am still a Rossi fan hoping Yamaha can find more power in the future....will see...

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
Pretty much how I feel.

Honestly I donít care who wins if itís between a good race or a boring race. Yes Iím going to root Dovi and always want to see Ducati competitive in its unique way always thinking outside the box and also relying on its heritage.

If having two brothers on the track at the same time changes the dynamics enough to make for a more competitive race Iím all for it. Letís face it while Marc is crazy skilled ( and a bit of a bully) it made for a overall boring year, there were a few great races this year, but having the championship won so soon it was anticlimactic.

Alex might never be a champion like his brother but I got to believe Marc will elevate Alexís performance. Might go the other way, itís already got me anxious.
Neils400 likes this.
__________________
"What we wish, we readily believe, and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also."
Julius Caesar
Tchase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2019, 07:37 PM   #9
Senior Member

No ducatis in the registry

 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 344
I couldn't agree more...boring for most of the races. If one team dominates with the motorcycle and rider then the actual race is mute. Moto 2 and 3 have proven to be more competitive. Let's hope Ducati, Yamaha, KTM, and Suzuki can field more competitive bikes so at least other Challenger's have a chance to win... Watching Rossi lead a race, or others, only to lose every time on the straightaway was just sad. If he had a competitive motorcycle perhaps he could at least get a few podiums along with others.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
Tchase likes this.
JohnR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2019, 08:03 PM   #10
Senior Member

ducatis in the registry:
[848 EVO]

 
cbr6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: virginia
Posts: 858
Moto 3 is the best racing on the planet !
cbr6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2019, 10:52 AM   #11
Court Jester

No ducatis in the registry

 
Tchase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Buckley, WA, USA
Posts: 11,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbr6 View Post
Moto 3 is the best racing on the planet !
When the GP race is undecided on the last lap there is no better circuit.
__________________
"What we wish, we readily believe, and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also."
Julius Caesar
Tchase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2019, 04:46 PM   #12
Senior Member

ducatis in the registry:
[1098 S]

 
pat1098's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Adelaide South Australia
Posts: 6,778
A bit harsh in my view to say the racing this year was boring, although it's certainly true that the smaller classes put on an amazing year, which perhaps tended to make the MotoGP class seem a bit less thrilling by comparison.
But there were so many stellar moments, particularly with the new blood; Fabio in particular of course. A lot more to come from that 'quarter'.
As for Alex's chances in the top class? He appears a bit more fragile when interviewed - more introspective than Marc perhaps. He is definitely a different breed to his brother. But the way he took charge of the Moto2 class this year, his classic save, his understated mannerism - I would allow for the possibility of his reaching the heights.
I remember their dad saying a few years back that Alex was actually the quicker of the two at times when they were growing up, presumably allowing for their age difference at that time. And he would have a better idea than the rest of us.
But of course Marc has many years of head start in the bigger class, so Alex will need a year or two before we can expect wonders.
But the relative power/acceleration of the various makes is a real area of interest. It seems to me that the different makes are somewhat locked into their current engine architecture, and that their various attributes - relative to one another - will remain in roughly the same order. I see this as reflective of their various engineering solutions.
The engines that don't require any (or as much) counterbalancing - Honda and Ducati - have an advantage in power, offset by the benefit of the more compact engine mass of the in-line solution of Yamaha, and now Suzuki. Mass centralisation at the price of more rotating mass internally.
Of the least counterbalanced engines the Ducati has the advantage of Desmo valve operation, allowing more radical opening and closing of the valves. IE - the valves can be open wider, and for longer, in a way valve springs can't allow. That places it as potentially the most powerful engine, within the strict limitations of maximum bore size/number of cylinders mandated by MotoGP.
Their offset between the two 'Vs' appears to give them other advantages in traction and tyre use, so they have two significant design advantages over the other makes. But they still suffer from a 'mid corner problem', which masks these other advantages, but are clearly the most powerful down the longer straights. But they don't have a Marquez in the saddle.
The Honda is the closest behind Ducati in theoretical output, as a 'conventional' 90 degree V4 without the need for counterbalancing, and this appears to remain the case, in spite of their power increase this year. It too remains difficult to ride at various points, as demonstrated by Crutchlow's unhappiness, and perhaps Lorenzo's lacklustre performances on it (although with Jorgť and his various injuries it is difficult to take much from that)!
Suzuki have obviously made serious power and tyre preservation gains, with Mir showing signs of serious competitiveness along with of course Rins. Some of Rins' less polite manoeuvres have counted against him during the year, and limited Suzuki's success, but I would expect Suzuki to continue to creep towards the front, with their now-expected surge late in the race on tyres that seem to last better for them.
Yamaha? Too reliant on the mercurial talent of Fabio in my view for their success, although it has to be said that he may be bringing out the best in Vinales, who now appears to be getting a bike set up purely for him, after having a bike (ostensibly) biased towards Valť's preference for some time.
KTM reputedly have serious power output, if a somewhat unruly bike to ride, but the combination of Pol Espargaro, Binder and another year's development could see them appearing closer to the front more often, at least later next year. Just not with Zarco on it...
Leaving only Aprilia, who continue improving, only to be outclassed by greater improvements in the other makes. They can't seem to quite catch up to the moving target that the larger factories present. Or Ducati, who are hardly a 'larger factory', yet continue to 'punch above their weight' regardless.
And we love that! Bring on next year, quick.

Neo-996 and Tchase like this.
pat1098 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2019, 06:30 PM   #13
Court Jester

No ducatis in the registry

 
Tchase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Buckley, WA, USA
Posts: 11,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by pat1098 View Post
A bit harsh in my view to say the racing this year was boring, although it's certainly true that the smaller classes put on an amazing year, which perhaps tended to make the MotoGP class seem a bit less thrilling by comparison.
But there were so many stellar moments, particularly with the new blood; Fabio in particular of course. A lot more to come from that 'quarter'.
As for Alex's chances in the top class? He appears a bit more fragile when interviewed - more introspective than Marc perhaps. He is definitely a different breed to his brother. But the way he took charge of the Moto2 class this year, his classic save, his understated mannerism - I would allow for the possibility of his reaching the heights.
I remember their dad saying a few years back that Alex was actually the quicker of the two at times when they were growing up, presumably allowing for their age difference at that time. And he would have a better idea than the rest of us.
But of course Marc has many years of head start in the bigger class, so Alex will need a year or two before we can expect wonders.
But the relative power/acceleration of the various makes is a real area of interest. It seems to me that the different makes are somewhat locked into their current engine architecture, and that their various attributes - relative to one another - will remain in roughly the same order. I see this as reflective of their various engineering solutions.
The engines that don't require any (or as much) counterbalancing - Honda and Ducati - have an advantage in power, offset by the benefit of the more compact engine mass of the in-line solution of Yamaha, and now Suzuki. Mass centralisation at the price of more rotating mass internally.
Of the least counterbalanced engines the Ducati has the advantage of Desmo valve operation, allowing more radical opening and closing of the valves. IE - the valves can be open wider, and for longer, in a way valve springs can't allow. That places it as potentially the most powerful engine, within the strict limitations of maximum bore size/number of cylinders mandated by MotoGP.
Their offset between the two 'Vs' appears to give them other advantages in traction and tyre use, so they have two significant design advantages over the other makes. But they still suffer from a 'mid corner problem', which masks these other advantages, but are clearly the most powerful down the longer straights. But they don't have a Marquez in the saddle.
The Honda is the closest behind Ducati in theoretical output, as a 'conventional' 90 degree V4 without the need for counterbalancing, and this appears to remain the case, in spite of their power increase this year. It too remains difficult to ride at various points, as demonstrated by Crutchlow's unhappiness, and perhaps Lorenzo's lacklustre performances on it (although with Jorgť and his various injuries it is difficult to take much from that)!
Suzuki have obviously made serious power and tyre preservation gains, with Mir showing signs of serious competitiveness along with of course Rins. Some of Rins' less polite manoeuvres have counted against him during the year, and limited Suzuki's success, but I would expect Suzuki to continue to creep towards the front, with their now-expected surge late in the race on tyres that seem to last better for them.
Yamaha? Too reliant on the mercurial talent of Fabio in my view for their success, although it has to be said that he may be bringing out the best in Vinales, who now appears to be getting a bike set up purely for him, after having a bike (ostensibly) biased towards Valť's preference for some time.
KTM reputedly have serious power output, if a somewhat unruly bike to ride, but the combination of Pol Espargaro, Binder and another year's development could see them appearing closer to the front more often, at least later next year. Just not with Zarco on it...
Leaving only Aprilia, who continue improving, only to be outclassed by greater improvements in the other makes. They can't seem to quite catch up to the moving target that the larger factories present. Or Ducati, who are hardly a 'larger factory', yet continue to 'punch above their weight' regardless.
And we love that! Bring on next year, quick.

Absolutely there were ďmomentsĒ, one too many races were over after the first few laps, and the championship was won how many races prior to the last? When the title is won so early yes it can make for some boring races. Great to see Fabio coming and at least my wife got to hear a different name other than Marc Marquez... I donít really watch moto 2&3 so Iím strictly griping about GP. Itís also hard to see Rossi struggle and I think it has more to do with age than machine. One take away from the year for me is Marquez can be beat, but you have to be consistent, I have to wonder if Lorenzo didnít race this year would Dovi had a chance. Dovi is like a magnet when others screw up

Remember Pat Iím bias for Ducati so yes if we are not winning I can be a bit harsh lol.
__________________
"What we wish, we readily believe, and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also."
Julius Caesar
Tchase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2019, 06:39 PM   #14
Senior Member

ducatis in the registry:
[848 EVO]

 
cbr6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: virginia
Posts: 858
I watched every Moto GP Q1, Q2, and race. I thoroughly enjoyed every one of them, I'm not a Marquez fan (I respect how good he is, but think he's a douche) still a Rossi fan and believe he most likely wont win again (he still runs better than a lot of guys). I like to see all the different angles, slow mo's, close ups and every little bit they show. I watch as much of the Moto 2&3 races and qualifying as I can make time for.
lextech and Tchase like this.
cbr6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2019, 06:56 PM   #15
Court Jester

No ducatis in the registry

 
Tchase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Buckley, WA, USA
Posts: 11,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbr6 View Post
I watched every Moto GP Q1, Q2, and race. I thoroughly enjoyed every one of them, I'm not a Marquez fan (I respect how good he is, but think he's a douche) still a Rossi fan and believe he most likely wont win again (he still runs better than a lot of guys). I like to see all the different angles, slow mo's, close ups and every little bit they show. I watch as much of the Moto 2&3 races and qualifying as I can make time for.
Well I didnít realize we were adding qualifying, yes those were as entertaining as some races.

I resubbed if I wasnít entertained I wouldnít of, there is plenty of entertainment. Iím talking the competitiveness, itís why I enjoy football over baseball. The NFL has worked hard to hold a balance, yes you get the occasional ďPatriotsĒ however within any given game or match up itís any given Sunday. In MotoGP in any given Sunday you are basically hoping Marquez goes down (with getting hurt) or has a mechanical. Itís almost as if he should be handicapped to the rear of the line up, heíd still probably win. This is the ďboring factor for me.

As for individual riders Iím more a factory fan than a rider, but respect the shit out of the riders. Marquez needs to go to Ducati!
__________________
"What we wish, we readily believe, and what we ourselves think, we imagine others think also."
Julius Caesar
Tchase is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.