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Discussion Starter #42
What is the voltage while cranking? If it goes below 10volts there might not be enough to power the coils. It’s a good way to troubleshoot the starter too. Best luck
It was holding around the 11v mark with the new battery. I did try cranking it with a charger attached later to prevent frying a brand new battery.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Voltage at starting should be around 13 if it's less than the bike will struggle to fire. Also these bikes are not cheap. Parts and maintenance gets expensive quickly. Sometimes if you want it done right take it to a specialist. They can also tell you if anything else is wrong.
Battery did start off at 13v as you may be able to see on the dash in the video. Mind you the dash isn’t the most reliable gauge. I think that’s more because of the really low refresh rate though, not an inaccurate reading at the given moment.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
To start, I notice your dash display shows "SERV" when you turn the key on, followed by "BATT" after that. Given you've replaced the battery and had master techs look at the bike, I hate to suggest looking at your manual to see what those terms signify and what might cause them to be displayed. However.... putting a volt meter directly on the battery can't hurt anything.

A 4th gear bump start is a good idea, but if it does start and needs to be kept at high RPM to stay running, you haven't identified the problem.

If your recording was of an automobile, with a good charge on the battery, I'd say it sounds like it could be seriously advanced ignition timing (lighting the fire too soon, causing it to fight the starter motor). If timing is badly advanced that could account for slow turn-over and needing to keep it revved up.

I don't know if there are timing marks on Ducati flywheel(s) so you can use a strobe light to check timing, but if not maybe it's possible to put a timing wheel on the end of the crankshaft with a pointer to locate TDC (either cylinder) and position a camera to record either a stobe light or spark plug firing event and TDC for the cylinder at the time it fires, you should be able to tell how soon BTDC it's lighting off. Sounds difficult, but clicking on "settings" (the gear icon) for your YouTube video allows you to slow a video down to quarter speed, where it might be possible to make that determination. I don't have enough experience with Ducati ignitions to know what might cause something like that... back to the manual!
If I recall correctly the “SERV” notification is because of mileage. 16k. As for the advanced timing- I will definitely make note of that Incase I don’t make headway with any of the other (hopefully simpler) suggestions lol. Thanks for the insight. Hadn’t thought of that.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
First I love your bike. I have an s model myself. So many things go wrong on this bike that you will get all sorts of non-help. No one can diagnose a problem like this without testing and baseline results. If this bike was running in perfect condition and you rode 15000 miles a year you can expect to spend 3000 to 5000 dollars in tires, chains, oil, and valve and belt drive. Worth every penny. However - If we could afford that and were the type to utilize the dealer for all maintenance. We would all be riding v4s's. You have a long tough road to learn how to check the belts and ignition yourself. As others have said start with the service light. Has the exhaust valve been removed? That will cause an error. You must keep on hand a starter solenoid, Voltage regulator, oil pressure sensor, and start looking for a good cheap radiator...

I have had exactly the problem you had in your video. The ecu will retune the starting fuel if the bike does not start or is run for short time an not allowed to warm up fully. In my case after changing the solenoid I noticed rust on the backside of the battery terminals. Brush or sand bot the terminals the posts and the screws on the battery. Use a trickle charger and allow to charge overnight.
Test: Does the engine spin over faster? y/n
Test: when you push the starter button once and release does the starter continue to try and crank the bike? y/n
Test: When you turn key to "ON" do you hear the fuel pump turn on. Y/N
Test: Put enough gas into the tank to see it! It hates low fuel...
Never turn the throttle during starting!

More involved:

Inspect belts with lower cylinder TDC the slots in the cam drivers should line up. They will not be lined up on the vert cylinder on a 1098. Look for missing teeth on belts and pulleys.

Pull the fuel pump and bench test. (There is a small tube at the base of the pump that will fail) Replace the Fuel filter Now!
Reinstall and go through all the starting procedure again. Note the fuel connectors have orings get more first! The fuel connectors use a ring that you squeeze to release. Buy two for spare later.

Pull the plugs and spin starter. Does it spit oil or water or gas?

Still no joy: Perform compression test. If fails perform leak down test.

If leak down test fails replace belts it could just be timing.

Your Master Mechanics have done none of this because of cost and knowledge. You will spend hours just getting to the belts.

I will gladly help, Best of luck...
Exhaust valve is still on the bike and working. Only has Akrapovic slip-ons. And I’ll keep an eye out for a steal on those parts you mentioned to keep on hand.

The test sequence you posted I did a couple times as I was going through the bike. Fuel filter was replaced by the techs. What exactly is that small tube responsible for that you were referring to? I appreciate you taking the time to put some thought into this.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Did you actually remove the starter to inspect the brushes? If not then you need to remove the alternator cover and check which starter it has fitted. There was a retrofit for the starter motors that should have been done as a TSB. The easy way to tell is that the "good" one will have the teeth cut into the armature rather than a separate gear. The upgrade includes a different idler gear and it's shaft to lower the drive ratio and give the starter an easier time. One thing that can happen is that the later idler shaft can wear the crankcase and allow the gears to bind in operation which will give the symptoms you are experiencing. It probably has the early #3 camshafts in it as well. They usually got upgraded at the same time as the starter and the airbox. If you PM me the VIN I can check for you whether it's been done. There were lots of Recalls and TSBs on those early bikes.
Why does everyone doubt that I removed the starter? Haha. A little baffled myself by that. Anyway, I did in fact remove, disassemble, clean and inspect the assembly. I gave the commutator a quick sanding to smooth it out so the brushes would have better smoother flowing contact. (Used to service commercial grade electric tools) However I’m trying to figure out how to properly and safely bench test it. I have heard some starters will weaken rather than just out right fail as rare as that seems to be. Need to do a Voltage drop test. Easier said than done as one person. I wasn’t aware of the retrofit starter. Wish I knew that before I reinstalled everything haha. I’m certain I’ll need to open it up again at some point so I’ll check then. And I’m going to have to take you up on the VIN check offer. Thanks for sparring some time to help. Seriously. This process was starting to get slow and much more confusing.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
When you Short-circuit the solenoid, does your bike crank/start?

And what for electronic devices have you added/installed on your Ducati?
I hadn’t tried that, but I will definitely give it a shot. As for added electronics, there are non as far as I know or have noticed. Why do you ask?
 

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Discussion Starter #48
You are exactly the kind of "Senior Member" that shows up on all Ducati sites. The OP already told you If you have nothing to contribute keep quiet! This man is learning and I for one firmly believe in Paying it forward. Help anyone that is positively contributing to the Ducati community by spending their money and time Trying and learning. So far the collective of your wisdom has been to tear down in an elitist fashion and suggest Take it to a dealer. At this point sir you are the one demonstrating a lack of knowledge about Ducati's. You may be a great enthusiast but I think you enjoy the sarcasm and angry responses way more. You will no doubt have a negative reaction to me attempting to speak constructively. Whiterum Please keep posting questions and your results!
Ok...

"Senior" members, in his defense he's had many contributing posts to this forum. While he can be "gruff" his points are not wrong. He could be saving the OP some Money (time) in his advise, but has the OP said the mechanics are very far away. That doesn't mean there might very well be a local mechanic that knows the bike that not a "Ducati" technician.

There are plenty of new members that are far more technically sound than me a "senior" member. The only thing a senior member means is they know the history of this forum. And some of that history is the problem the OP has buried in mounts of new posts... Members come with problems then leave never to contribute and stay.

I"m not saying the OP is going to solve his problem and leave (odds are he will).

The history of this forum and it's long before my time is up and down and right now very down, lack of real moderation is part of that problem. But this is without a doubt the most knowledge based forum on Ducatis you will come across.

I don't need to defend SV and you don't need to defend the OP. Many forums have expectaitons and this one once did, since of community like the first post being and introduction..... now a days people join to sale their parts never to be seen again.

I"m rambling, but I can promise if the OP sticks it out and doesn't take things personal he might very well find a solution through this site just as others are starting to chime in.

When new members post something like this , I think you might find old members more "friendly" SV doesn't kid glove many members know this, it doesn't mean he not a good guy. Dutch can be gruff, but it doesn't mean he not a good guy, those two are very technically sound. My advise is more have you tried this <img src="http://www.ducati.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />

Anyways before you hammer down you might want to look at the history of the posts....

https://www.ducati.org/forums/technical/115035-1x98-848-common-fault-thread.html

This ^ is what contributing members do, has nothing to do with post count...
Oddly enough there are only 2 shops around and the other one said they would touch it. Regardless, I want to learn and I’ve never been afraid to get my hands dirty. Working and modifying bikes is my passion. I’m only going to school for engineering so I can expound on that. Unfortunately I don’t have any “mentors” to lean on and I admit I need some guidance/ direction. Which is kind of why I’m here.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
You are exactly the kind of "Senior Member" that shows up on all Ducati sites. The OP already told you If you have nothing to contribute keep quiet! This man is learning and I for one firmly believe in Paying it forward. Help anyone that is positively contributing to the Ducati community by spending their money and time Trying and learning. So far the collective of your wisdom has been to tear down in an elitist fashion and suggest Take it to a dealer. At this point sir you are the one demonstrating a lack of knowledge about Ducati's. You may be a great enthusiast but I think you enjoy the sarcasm and angry responses way more. You will no doubt have a negative reaction to me attempting to speak constructively. Whiterum Please keep posting questions and your results!
You need to go back and reread the last post I commented on. My comment was directed at PlainBill0 who doesn't know what SERV or BATT mean. This person does not know enough about the bike in question to make any useful comments.

You also need to go back and read post #1. The OP claims that he has scoured the internet for weeks looking for advice. I call BS on that. You yourself posted a bunch of very useful items, but the fact is those are all known items that the OP would have found if he had actually done some research.

If you pay attention, you will notice that this forum regularly has new members that do not contribute and their first post always starts with "I have searched and searched and I haven't found the answer". They have bought a project bike and, instead of paying a hard working mechanic to help them, expect forum members to give them a shit ton of free advice. These new members are only on here for help with that bike. Once it is sold, they are gone. Help them if you want, but this offends my delicate sense of propriety.
I see were you're coming from. And I would love to be able to help and give back here, but as I’m sure you quickly noticed I’m not very familiar with this platform much if at all. It would be very difficult and even irresponsible of me to consider trying to advise anyone here of anything concerning these bikes. I’m well aware I need to crawl before I can coach.

If you have some technical expertise you can share, please don’t hesitate. It would be massively appreciated. And I apologize if my ignorance is some what irritating or offensive, but that’s why I’m here. So someone ike yourself will hopefully be willing to show me were I've screwed up. I hope that’s alright
 

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Oddly enough there are only 2 shops around and the other one said they would touch it. Regardless, I want to learn and I’ve never been afraid to get my hands dirty. Working and modifying bikes is my passion. I’m only going to school for engineering so I can expound on that. Unfortunately I don’t have any “mentors” to lean on and I admit I need some guidance/ direction. Which is kind of why I’m here.
It's a long stretch but you could post on CL and ask if there is anyone that has knowledge of working on the 1098.

I would be specific to the model because you might find someone like be that is back yard mechanic but only specific to a model.

I think it's great you want to learn to wrench it yourself, I am mechanically inclined but when I bought the 848 new I was very intimidated, slowly I started with the basic maintenance oil change etc. I did my first full service and it did not turn out so well, I will never know exactly what went wrong but it I did not have enough tension on the vertical belt (lost the belt and grenade the engine). Or it could of been the after market belts. And doing the valve shims meh not for me too much math.


You are getting a lot of things thrown at you that could be other problems but your first problem is getting the bike to turn over.

Now here is my thought while I have not owned a 1098 my 848 is the baby version of it. I've read plenty about how hard the 1098 turns over even with fresh battery. My 848 can kill the battery very fast as well, this is if of course you have other issues that are not allowing the bike to start and idle.

Keep focused on turning the bike over first, like dutch said short the cylinoid and see if you can get the starter to crank. He asked about additional electronics because there could be a short.

One thing nobodies really drilled down on is (I think) is to check your grounds as well.

On your battery my thoughts are even if you bought new if you had it turning over like I said it doesn't take much to run it down. Also volts being read is only part of confirming the battery is working properly. If you have a charger I would keep the battery on it when you are not working on the bike this will help eliminate if it's drained.

I just have to ask are you sure you bought the right battery? Again the 1098 is a hard turn over no matter what.


I have two 848 one is my original bought off the show room floor the second is one I built from scratch from spare parts, as for assembly these bikes are not really complicated but it is easy to miss something. Do you have the workshop manual downloaded and I also suggest getting the IPC so you can trace the wire harness making sure everything is connected. Also I might of missed it but you have check all the fuses including the inline one?


Where are you located?
 

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I see were you're coming from. And I would love to be able to help and give back here, but as I’m sure you quickly noticed I’m not very familiar with this platform much if at all. It would be very difficult and even irresponsible of me to consider trying to advise anyone here of anything concerning these bikes. I’m well aware I need to crawl before I can coach.

If you have some technical expertise you can share, please don’t hesitate. It would be massively appreciated. And I apologize if my ignorance is some what irritating or offensive, but that’s why I’m here. So someone ike yourself will hopefully be willing to show me were I've screwed up. I hope that’s alright

Do not sell yourself short, I try to help with post but I always let them know I'm not an expert, and typically another member will correct me if I'm way off....
 

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It is part of the recirculation circuit. You may never see it until you pull the fuel pump motor from the housing. Its about an inch long clear tubing. I think it directs the return flow.
 

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It is part of the recirculation circuit. You may never see it until you pull the fuel pump motor from the housing. Its about an inch long clear tubing. I think it directs the return flow.
I understand when he got it to turn over to start this might be one of the many problems.

But I think he has to solve why its not kicking over strong enough in the first place?

If his battery is new and he charges over night it should turn over like normal right? Unless he has the wrong battery, a defective battery?
 

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I understand when he got it to turn over to start this might be one of the many problems.

But I think he has to solve why its not kicking over strong enough in the first place?

If his battery is new and he charges over night it should turn over like normal right? Unless he has the wrong battery, a defective battery?
The fuel line comment was in response to a private message sorry out of context.

I agree with you turning over solution is paramount. It is time to pull the plugs and see if it turns over easier. Then squirt wd40 in and see if it gets better. Sooner or later valve movement has to be observed. Even drain the oil looking for water and drain the coolant looking for oil. (Open the radiator cap turn engine over and look for air blowing out with water or even rising and falling water.

That is why I suggested pulling plugs and see what pumps out and if it gets easier. We are so prone to electrical failures on this bike we forget the basic failures of head gaskets and stuck valves. I know desmo might not ever stick completely but it is still an observation that needs to be checked. No way can I communicate to anyone how to do a leakdown test. But 1098's with 90 miles had over 22% would run and just shut off at a stop light.
 

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TEST 1
pull the plugs, mark h or v for cylinder. put paper towel over each head to catch some of what comes out mark h and v cylinder. holding the towels is best. top one you can put a weight on hold the horizontal. Then you can do it alone. Take pictures or video of plugs and paper towels.

Questions:

Did it turn over better?
What shot out?
Are plugs wet with water?
Are plugs wet with Oil?
Smell plug does it smell like paint, a sickening sweet smell, or like clean raw gasoline
Are plugs dry and brown to white?
Did a large quantity of liquid shoot out onto rags?
Are rags wet, oily, or covered in gasoline?

Old men with race bikes that cannot be ridden below 50 degree ground temp are anxiously awaiting results. Hell a road trip is not out of the question!
 

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Gday mate, I had the same drama a while ago and put a new battery in my 1098R. Even with the new batrery it wouldnt start. So I hooked up Jumer leads to my cars battery and boom, started first go. If you do this remove leads as soon as it starts up as you may damage regulator/ rectifier. You're welcome😆
 

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Let's not forget on 1098 models. The oem wiring from positive to solenoid and to starter are cheap aluminum wire..... They break and do not transmit proper voltage! Firstly I would upgrade the wires to a motoelectric HICAP starting kit. This takes the strain off the battery and electronics.
 
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