[ducatista4life]

****UPDATED!! At my newest post!!***

Gents,

Once again, I get to post a misfortune of mine.. I have been in contact with a few on this forum with their thoughts on this, however, now I want to keep it tracked so anyone with this issue can get resolution quickly.. I haven't noticed anyone else having this issue, so here it goes..

About a month ago, I noticed a slight whirring noise/belts too tight sound from my bike while on the downfall of a rev, this was in neutral and all gears.. It was particularly noticeable when the bike was cold.. So I started doing some digging and called a couple dealers.. We all thought it might be the belts being too tight, however, that would of been noticed when the belts were changed about 5000 Miles ago.. Either way, I dropped off the bike a week ago to get looked at and Randy, mechanic at Ducati of Charleston, broke the news that the belts were fine.. So, now I am about to pull my hair out awaiting a resolution from them.. Which leaves us with more then likely an internal issue.. It definitely sounds stronger when near the clutch and where the horizontal and vertical timing belt pulleys intersect.. I posted a video so that it can give some insight for thoughts with this issue.. ENJOY! The issue is noted at 1:40 when the bike finally starts..

History: Just hit 13,500 Miles

Bike has never been down at all.. All the fairings are off to get painted and I took off the timing cover to see what was going on in there.. Noticed a bit of sludge/dirt, just not sure if that is normal or excessive..

Sprag/Starting Clutch Replaced twice at Redline Performance Ducati in Virginia about 5000 Miles ago.. Weird.. Still sucks at starting.. Getting a new battery

Rizoma Timing Cover & MWR Air Filter (2 Piece) Installed about 1000 Miles ago

Akrapovic EVO Full System with Microtec ECU 2000 Miles ago

Full Service to include belts about 5000 Miles ago

The issue is noted at 1:40 when the bike finally starts..

Ducati 1198 Whirring Noise - YouTube

 

[Tuned]

Ya know, I've heard the same thing with new belts, but 5000 miles is plenty of time for break-in.

Perhaps the dealer installed the wrong belts. Teeth width can cause this same noise and I've had issues with this noise on some aftermarket belts which weren't cut well. I did a 748 recently which had the same noise. Put the old belts back on, noise went away. I talked with CA Cycleworks where I got the belts from and they said it may be normal. They've heard of other people with the same noise.

I can't imagine it being a bottom end noise, it's too high pitched. You wouldn't be able to hear those high's through the crankcase, any noise coming from there would be lower pitched no matter what.

I personally don't trust a mechanic who doesn't put a different set of belts on to diagnose the issue. Throwing a tension measuring device on there, doesn't help resolve anything. You could have a bad bearing on a roller which would make the same noise. So it really needs to be gone through for sure.

 

[Jrmccain]

Man, that does sound strange. I have a '11 1198 and hope to not hear such sounds. As you've said it sounds like a bearing. I am curious to hear what the dealer says.

Regarding the startup, that is not normal - at least not compared to my 98. I think if you replace the battery you'll be much happier. On a cold startup I push the button and within three or four revolutions she fires.

 

[juan1]

my 1198 makes the same sound ever since i remember i dont i have 7600 miles, i looked around and i cant find anything wrong with the belts bearings on those pullys or anything like that area

 

[rubbish]

That's a bit odd...haven't heard that before. But I'd be worried about why it was so hard to start as well.

Keep us posted

 

[LaDrucati]

I dont see or hear anything wrong there... sounds like it needs an Italian tune up.

And also when you cranking it up; crack the throttle open ever so slightly... dont let go of the starting button so early and give it a chance to prime and it will crank.


Sounds just like my 1098s recent belt job at 12k (now on 14,200 and SEVERAL trackdays)

You should just ride it like you stole it...:blind: Question: Are you experiencing any type of mechanical failure? or is it just that you're hearing that whirring noise?

I have the same exhaust as you do with an open clutch BTW.

 

[gunther19820]

^agreed.

 

[ducatista4life]

Alrighty fellas.. So here it goes.. The Ducati Tech down here, which I am not sure if I trust him as he didn't know the difference between 848/1098 exhaust flanges and the 1198/1098r flanges.. Let alone, that the 1098r has carbon bodywork.. Sorry some things just stuck out to me like.. Really?!?!?

Anyway, back to the case at point.. The tech, listened to it and seems to think that it might just be the Rizoma Clear cover having a resonance point that is causing the sound.. He doesn't think anything internal is failing and stated that everything should be fine.. Which I can believe, because the bike runs great and I haven't had any issues at all thankfully! Either way, it does back up some of y'alls thoughts on it just being a normal sound, but for some reason it still bothers me.. I tried to answer all of everyones questions and hopefully its nothing that will bite me in the butt.. I almost want a written statement from the tech, but I don't know if I would be overstepping my bounds or not..

And Rubbish, I believe that it is time for a new battery.. It doesn't sound like the sprag going out again... Ive been so fortunate to replace that twice..

Any other thoughts are appreciated.. I will be taking her down to Mellilimoto or maybe a NC dealer for the major service and possibly get this looked at then too and get a second opinion..

Thanks again guys!

 

[Tuned]

Yea, get a 2nd opinion! Especially from someone who didn't work on it before.

 

[rubbish]

Well if it's because of the cover, have you only started to hear that after you put the Rizoma cover on?? I'm also seeing that you had the cover off in the video so I don't see how that would be from the resonance of the cover.

Get a 2nd opinion from someone that knows his head from his ass maybe. Go to a master tech, not just any random level 1 or 2 guy.

 

[ducatista4life]

Thanks fellas.. I appreciate the positive feedback and its the vertical cover that he believes is causing the resonance of sorts and nope, I definitely didn't notice it then which really makes me worry.. It looks like I am not out of the water yet though, so I will be making another trip for a 2nd opinion!

 

[PWJ]

Replace that battery as its killing your sprag. Take off both belt covers to listen for it again. Then if it's still there take off the belts and move each cam and pulley feeling for any friction or play, also checking the wear of the teeth on both cams and belts. Finally if all else fails and it's still there maybe, but unlikely could be the sprag.

 

[ducatista4life]

Thanks for the reply!! Just I keep everyone updated.. Just dropped it off at Thomas Performance with Master Tech Bobby Thomas.. He is going to give it a good look over and did note that it was not a good sound.. And yea, the battery is definitely getting replaced..

 

[Mr. Throttle Out!]

Good luck kiddo

 

[ducatista4life]

As promised -UPDATE-

Got the verdict today that the crank bearing is going out.. Unfortunately there was some metal in the screen and it all points to the crank bearing unfortunatley, therefore, it looks like either rebuild with blueprinting and head work at Duc Shop or a used engine off fleabay.. Either way it's $4-5k.. Was really hoping this wasn't the case but it isn't.. Any suggestions are welcomed and desired.. All I can say is thank god I didn't listen to the mechanic down here.. Otherwise it would definitely be a new engine as this one would of most likely shit all over me.. And yes gents a new battery is in the works..

 

[rubbish]

What??? Ok, I'll admit I'm no expert on the innards of an engine, but you're saying the engine is basically scrap because of 1 bearing?? Why can't the bearing be replaced?

 

[ducatista4life]

What??? Ok, I'll admit I'm no expert on the innards of an engine, but you're saying the engine is basically scrap because of 1 bearing?? Why can't the bearing be replaced?

Yup those were my thoughts too, however, they are saying that because the engine is going to have both sides open and off that rebuilding it, would be good for it and cost efficient.. And they haven't opened it up yet either, it's mainly a call based on the operation of the bike when it was running/noise and the shavings.. Once it is taken apart, then they would have a better idea, but it was still a hefty bill to take it apart and such.. I guess k should ask what it would be to just have the bearings swapped out and no headwork done..

Current work to be actually done is new lightened flywheel, replace bearings, (possibly all with ceramic), and install the slipper.. Any other worthwhile ideas are welcome!

Thanks for the question mate!

 

[Tuned]

I spent an afternoon with a professional Ducati mechanic few days ago, working on a documentary film and we had time to discuss "shop". He told me an unbelievable story about Ducati's crank bearings, something I never knew about. Turns out, Ducati uses cheap Chinese roller bearings on the Testastretta EVO machines (so all 1098/1198/848) and they spent millions developing processes to make those shit bearings work. Evidently, in the factory they squeeze the cases together, there is no preload (play) on the crank from the factory. This story was news to me because I always knew the big-end rod bearings were a problem on these motors, but turns out they were only half the problem. Funny part is, Ducati engine building 101… always use the 749/999 crank bearings. They're made by SKF and fit the newer engines no problem. I never quite understood why and now I know. It's an amazing coincidence to hear whining crank bearings as the same time I heard this bearing story!

So long story short, the noise could absolutely be bearing whine and it could very well be bad crank bearings. I'm in disbelief because I've personally NEVER seen them go bad with such low mileage. Honestly, I'd do an oil analysis before spending another dime, just to make sure.

It's a very easy fix, the most time consuming part is actually getting the engine out of the bike and onto the engine stand for disassembly. Once the engine is on the bench, its only a few hours worth of work. You've gotta pull the clutch and tranny because you need to bake the cases to put the new bearings in. I'd do the big-end rod bearing's at the same time and replace the piston rings (which I don't think you can get.) and re-assemble. This way you'll have a brand-new engine and if you have the shop replace those bearings with SKF one's (more expensive, but last longer) the engine should give you years of performance without a hiccup.

Buying a used motor is just silly because you don't know it's history. ALL of these motors suffer from the same crank bearing issues, so what's to say the used engine you buy, doesn't have the same issues up the road. If you can get the engine out and deliver it to the shop yourself, that will save you a tremendous amount of money. The Duc Shop is absolutely where I'd have the engine built and I'd trust them to do the right thing.

 

[ducatista4life]

I spent an afternoon with a professional Ducati mechanic few days ago, working on a documentary film and we had time to discuss "shop". He told me an unbelievable story about Ducati's crank bearings, something I never knew about. Turns out, Ducati uses cheap Chinese roller bearings on the Testastretta EVO machines (so all 1098/1198/848) and they spent millions developing processes to make those shit bearings work. Evidently, in the factory they squeeze the cases together, there is no preload (play) on the crank from the factory. This story was news to me because I always knew the big-end rod bearings were a problem on these motors, but turns out they were only half the problem. Funny part is, Ducati engine building 101… always use the 749/999 crank bearings. They're made by SKF and fit the newer engines no problem. I never quite understood why and now I know. It's an amazing coincidence to hear whining crank bearings as the same time I heard this bearing story!

So long story short, the noise could absolutely be bearing whine and it could very well be bad crank bearings. I'm in disbelief because I've personally NEVER seen them go bad with such low mileage. Honestly, I'd do an oil analysis before spending another dime, just to make sure.

It's a very easy fix, the most time consuming part is actually getting the engine out of the bike and onto the engine stand for disassembly. Once the engine is on the bench, its only a few hours worth of work. You've gotta pull the clutch and tranny because you need to bake the cases to put the new bearings in. I'd do the big-end rod bearing's at the same time and replace the piston rings (which I don't think you can get.) and re-assemble. This way you'll have a brand-new engine and if you have the shop replace those bearings with SKF one's (more expensive, but last longer) the engine should give you years of performance without a hiccup.

Buying a used motor is just silly because you don't know it's history. ALL of these motors suffer from the same crank bearing issues, so what's to say the used engine you buy, doesn't have the same issues up the road. If you can get the engine out and deliver it to the shop yourself, that will save you a tremendous amount of money. The Duc Shop is absolutely where I'd have the engine built and I'd trust them to do the right thing.

Can I just say I love this forum?!?! And coincidences are in my favor!!

I also had the exact thought on a used engine and so did Mr. Thomas and I am definitely leaning more towards rebuilding, as I love the sound these ducs make and I didn't know that 749/999 had more reliable bearings and these came with somewhat lesser bearings.. I'll have to see if we should do those over ceramic, as those were the current idea of upgrading the bearings.. Also, exactly what you described with the manufacturing process of assembling the engine and possibly cranking/aligning down on the shims and bearings incorrectly could of caused this.. I'll be sure to have bobby take some pics of the failed bearing.. Obviously he will be taking it apart to investigate it so I think that would do, with regards to finding out what failed, unless you think it might show something that he might not find while disassembling.. It's honestly a new process to me, but I will bring up the oil sample to him tomorrow as well.. I'll have to get ahold of them and see what it would save taking it apart.. Thanks again for the idea!

I appreciate the feedback!

 

[Tuned]

I tried the ceramic bearings once and they worked fine. I was turned off by one of my mechanic friends because he said they have a tendency to go catastrophic much easier, where the SKF one's don't, they simply shed metal particulates. Imagine if your bearing totally spit it balls everywhere all of a sudden, that would leave quite a mess.

Usually you don't see anything when disassembling a motor with bad crank bearings. They simply don't feel smooth when you turn them, hence the noise. The issue could have been poor lubrication for some reason, but it could also be simply one bad bearing. In either case, there is absolutely no reason to disassemble until you can PROVE the problem and an oil test will tell you just that.