[juan1]

my 1198 develop an issue starting up after siting over over last season and most of this year, when the bike is cold starts fine with no issues but when the bike warms up even just a bit sounds like is hydro locking or something of that nature any idea on what i should be looking for?

thanks juan r

 

[Spudd]

Nice video! That big twin takes major juice from your Battery just to get started when it is cold and BTW it starts very well compared to some, however, when you shut the bike off and then try a restart without giving the Batt a chance to recover it's lost amperage, then the bike will struggle to start. Personally, I only start my 1098 if I plan to ride it. These are race machines in street clothing and hate to be treated as such....just my 2 cents worth.

 

[gofastlarry]

my bike had starting problems as well.i bought a shorai battery(lithium) and did the starter/battery wire upgrade. starts like a dream.i posted a few threads about the battery (150$)shorai charger(70$),and wire upgrade(120$).totally worth every penny.starts like a jap bike,starts in 1-2 seconds every time all the time.eventually you will tear up your starter if you keep going the way your going.

 

[gofastlarry]

there is a guy selling a battery and charger in the parts for sale section cheap.i payed 220$ for the same set up he is selling for 180$

 

[cul8er]

I would agree with Spudd. As I am new to Ducati's but have been reading alot about the characteristics of the 1098/1198. And a lot of people/members have said the same thing Spudd said.

 

[juan1]

Thanks guys the bike already has a shorai battery on it, still does the same thing even if I take it out for a ride,

 

[tye1138]

Lithium batteries are strange beasts, they're very finicky with high and low temp's. The Chinese lithium's like Shorai, have a few issues with the DC to DC converters which prevent them from charging fully when in use. They recommend using a tender all the time as a consequence.

With that said, I did hear a distinct backfire knock, which is very reminiscent of the beginning failure of the sprague clutch. It appears, these 1198's have some issues with the idler gear pin and sprague clutches, which led them to make a change in the design. There are many threads about this problem on this forum, I'd just look around and you'll see the data.

However I'm still on the battery/charging circuit as being the problem. The characteristics of lithium batteries and how they like to be charged, really throws a monkey in the wrench when diagnosing this issue. If I were you, I'd beg/borrow an OEM battery, just to rule it out. If it has the same problem, then its most likely mechanical. If the issue goes away, then its clear the battery is the problem.

 

[Spudd]

One last thing, you've probably read about the battery cable upgrade, well the main reason it works is it moves more electrons than the OEM size cable and heat has a very adverse effect on the movement of electrons. The larger cables allow for maximum starting efficiency. So, besides a possible mechanical problem, as Tye stated, check into the battery cable upgrade. My 916 used to have a difficult start after it had been ridden and was good and hot. The upgrade fixed that problem for good.

 

[juan1]

Lithium batteries are strange beasts, they're very finicky with high and low temp's. The Chinese lithium's like Shorai, have a few issues with the DC to DC converters which prevent them from charging fully when in use. They recommend using a tender all the time as a consequence.

With that said, I did hear a distinct backfire knock, which is very reminiscent of the beginning failure of the sprague clutch. It appears, these 1198's have some issues with the idler gear pin and sprague clutches, which led them to make a change in the design. There are many threads about this problem on this forum, I'd just look around and you'll see the data.

However I'm still on the battery/charging circuit as being the problem. The characteristics of lithium batteries and how they like to be charged, really throws a monkey in the wrench when diagnosing this issue. If I were you, I'd beg/borrow an OEM battery, just to rule it out. If it has the same problem, then its most likely mechanical. If the issue goes away, then its clear the battery is the problem.

thanks tye im going to order a new sprag and flange replace those but im, deff not using a oem battery i rather try an other brand in my shorai is the issue

One last thing, you've probably read about the battery cable upgrade, well the main reason it works is it moves more electrons than the OEM size cable and heat has a very adverse effect on the movement of electrons. The larger cables allow for maximum starting efficiency. So, besides a possible mechanical problem, as Tye stated, check into the battery cable upgrade. My 916 used to have a difficult start after it had been ridden and was good and hot. The upgrade fixed that problem for good.

im deff getting the cables from moto electric over the winter since i been reading about the issue with the oem ones thanks

 

[gunther19820]

That sounds exactly how mine sounded- although it was the inverse on mine. When it was cold it wouldnt start, once it had temp it was fine.

Mine was a bad sprague/flanges/ starter.

 

[tye1138]

deff not using a oem battery i rather try an other brand in my shorai is the issue

Its just as a test… nothing more, nothing less. It's to rule out the battery.

 

[mopar166]

Tye, is correct in his 2nd to last post regarding the idler pin and failing sprag clutch. I had this issue in my 09 1198S. The idle gear pin on the 09 and '10 bikes cannot handle the stresses associated with hard starts, the result is a wallowed out bore which the pin sits in, causing the pin / gear to rock off center and bind.

Ducati, addressed this issue by redesigning the pin to be supported (cradled) on both ends (motor and alternator cover).

The good news, is the fix is fairly easy and not too expensive. You will need to buy the revised pin and spacer from ducati and just pickup a new stator housing from an '11 or newer 848/1198, which accommodates the revised pin design.

If this is in fact your problem, do not worry too much about the damaged caused by the pin wallowing out it's bore. The fact that is is supported on both sides keeps the gear straight and true-ish where it will not bind.

Here is a post with pictures I posted (page 2) on this whole ordeal:

http://www.ducati.org/forums/1098-1198/57295-funky-noise-when-cranking.html

 

[mopar166]

Also, other factors that affect starting are the CO adjusters located on each throttle body. In my own experiences, if these are not set correctly or not opened enough the bike has a harder time starting.

All these problems will destroy your sprag, so as Tye mentioned, get a new clutch, flange and gear if needed.

 

[_Iceman_]

What's a good source for the Cable upgrade?

 

[Throbber]

What's a good source for the Cable upgrade?

starting upgrade for Ducati motorcycles

 

[_Iceman_]

starting upgrade for Ducati motorcycles

thank you.

 

[andrewinbriz]

I had the same problem, hard starting (when hot). I did the wiring upgrade. Helped, but only a little bit. Battery was always fully charged. Replaced the sprag gear, worked well for a short time. (Costly) Lesson, don't just replace the sprag gear, replace it, the flange, and the driven gear together. Mechanic friend told me a weak battery causes the sprag gear to wear prematurely, so I bought a 300cca lithium battery. This is 6 months ago. All still working perfectly. Don't know specifically what your problem is, but my sprag gear was definitely worn, and was definitely the cause of my hard starting.

 

[phillthy]

I wish I could find out what the actual cause of the hard starting is. Mine was always a bit cranky but heaps better than the ones in vids. If it's in a good mood and fires on the 1st crank it's great but lately if in a bad mood it does the full on stop cranking thing. Did all the upgrades and has not had any metal in oil like when the starter sprag thingo happens. Got an exy 300+ cca battery but still a bit scared to ride it like I used to. Sometimes after stopping with temp of 80c or so it spins and starts like a dream. Other times if left and temp of 40-50 it takes a few go's and then don't want to fire. So far it has fired up but a bit scared it won't.

 

[9854olla]

Tye, is correct in his 2nd to last post regarding the idler pin and failing sprag clutch. I had this issue in my 09 1198S. The idle gear pin on the 09 and '10 bikes cannot handle the stresses associated with hard starts, the result is a wallowed out bore which the pin sits in, causing the pin / gear to rock off center and bind. Ducati, addressed this issue by redesigning the pin to be supported (cradled) on both ends (motor and alternator cover). The good news, is the fix is fairly easy and not too expensive. You will need to buy the revised pin and spacer from ducati and just pickup a new stator housing from an '11 or newer 848/1198, which accommodates the revised pin design. If this is in fact your problem, do not worry too much about the damaged caused by the pin wallowing out it's bore. The fact that is is supported on both sides keeps the gear straight and true-ish where it will not bind. Here is a post with pictures I posted (page 2) on this whole ordeal: funky noise when cranking

Hi this is what my 2010 1198 has as far as you know would Ducati dealer perform this work Thanks