[duhblow7]

I have a 2009 1198s that I purchased used late last year with under 4k miles. I've changed out the stock levers with CRG levers and had no problems with the plunger and put a couple hundred miles on the bike since the levers were installed. The bike has about 4500 miles on it today.

A couple days ago I was riding and came up to a red light. I pulled in my clutch lever but I could only depress it about a quarter of the normal clutch pull and the bike was still kinda in gear and kinda with the clutch in. It was as if the clutch was in the friction zone and it was slipping. I hit the kill switch as I approached the red light as the bike wanted to keep going. I was able to "bump start" the bike in gear with a little push and since I was on the road my house was located on I was able to limp it home without changing gears.

Once I got home I was able to pull the clutch lever a couple times with the bike off and I was able to get a full 100% lever pull a couple times. I started the bike up and was going to take it for a ride around the block but the clutch lever got "stuck" and won't pull in anymore. If before I had a 25% pull, now I have a 5-10% pull.

I thought it could be the clutch slave so I purchased an Oberon clutch slave cylinder and installed that today. I bled the clutch line and this did not help my issue at all.

My questions are what should be my next steps in the diagnosis? I imagine I need to remove the clutch cover and check that out. What should I be looking for? Does this sound like a common clutch issue?

 

[[email protected]]

Have you checked your clutch basket lately?? With the dry clutch, the plates rattle back and forth in the basket and can cause burrs to form and if one or 2 get too deep, the clutch can hang up while trying to engage it.

 

[duhblow7]

Have you checked your clutch basket lately?? With the dry clutch, the plates rattle back and forth in the basket and can cause burrs to form and if one or 2 get too deep, the clutch can hang up while trying to engage it.

I did but I'm not too sure exactly what I'm looking at. Here are some pics.

Should those tab things on the pressure plate line up with the grooves under it?

Looks like it needs to rotate clockwise about half an inch? Is that the problem?

Some metal shavings had me worried.


*edit- I took a rubber mallet and tapped it back into place and I have my clutch back.

Sweet! Clutch pull is much easier with this Oberon.

My questions are, how did this happen/what caused this? Is it likely to happen again? Should I be worried? Should I have a truck follow me on my next ride?

 

[[email protected]]

That was the hang up then. Did you check the torque on the spring cap nuts??

 

[duhblow7]

I don't have a torque wrench so I don't know the exact PSI but I put an alan up to each one and tried to tighten or loosen with a moderate amount of pressure and none of them budged in either direction. None were obviously loose.

Should I be worried about this happening again?

Thanks [email protected]

obligatory pic:

 

[[email protected]]

They don't require too much torque so sounds like they are tight. As for happening again.....that I can't answer.

 

[Shazaam!]

The plate will probably dislodge again.That outboard friction plate has been bent and all its tabs no longer fully engage the basket fingers. The clearance between plate tabs and basket exceed the 0.6 mm allowable. I'd say that you're due for a new basket and clutch pack if you want to insure reliability.

 

[Tuned]

Yep Shazaam is right, that happened most likely to stack wear.

 

[Aussie_Bob]

After 4500 miles & under normal conditions your basket wouldn't need replacing imo.
It doesn't look that bad and I've seen a lot worse that work perfectly fine albeit rather noisily.

You need to at least replace that outer friction plate and check everything else out wile you're in there.

The rod under an OEM situation should only move about a quarter of an inch which in my mind isn't enough to get that plate out passed the basket for this to happen. And with an aftermarket slave, presumably bigger, that distance will be even less.

A lot of peeps get themselves into trouble replacing levers whereby the master cylinder plunger doesn't retreat far enough to return fluid to the reservoir.

Something of course has allowed that plate to 'hang' and not retreat far enough with subsequent lever operations pushing it further out. Generally though the way the spring travel is it would also nearly be impossible to do imo.

Perhaps your hub is loose and is moving outward. This to me would explain the situation.

No one knows until it is pull apart and inspected.

 

[ducnial]

I'd say its the slave that is the root of the problem. If it binds up and sticks during retraction then the next depress of the lever jacks it out even further. Under normal conditions the displacement of the master is matched to the slave displacement, which is why it only takes one pull on the clutch lever to disengage it. If the slave sticks halfway upon retraction when the clutch is released then the next pull on the lever over extends the slave. This pushes the whole stack past the basket allowing the tab of the first steel disk to extend past the basket and rotate. If the first steel tab is bent then you'll need to replace it. if it only slightly deformed then swapping it down in the stack might resolve the stack problem but you're still faced with why it extended enough to cause it to get out of whack? IMO its the slave unless the total stack height was way over begin with. You can test this by repositioning the steel to its correct position and noting how close the tab comes to the end of the basket when the lever is fully depressed. Another possibility is the new lever does not permit proper venting of the clutch line through the master to the reservoir. Multiple depresses of the clutch lever and it not fully venting eventually leads to the slave being over extended. Another possibility is the new lever does not allow the the master piston to vent the clutch line into the reservoir. Eventually this leads to slave over extending.

 

[duhblow7]

Hmm okay lemme pull it apart and post pics soon.

 

[CorseRob]

Just FYI...if you are looking at having to replace clutch plates and such...

http://www.ducati.org/forums/parts/62551-parts-1198s-many-fit-other-bikes.html

May save you some cash if you are not wanting to replace with new.

 

[ducnial]

First check the operation of the pressure plate. Pull the clutch cover and and activate the lever several times in quick succession. If the pressure plate is sluggish returning then suspect the master is not venting sufficiently.

 

[EL Twin]

If you have aftermarket levers check there is enough freeplay at the lever end. If the return bleed hole is closed off the clutch fluid is unable to return to the reservior and will cause the issue in the picture. Pull the lever all the way in with your fingertips, then slip your fingers off the lever, letting it snap out to the released position. Observe the reservoir as you do this and you should see turbulence in the fluid each time. If not you need to adjust the plunger rod a bit shorter to open up the fluid return hole.


Edit, after a second look it appears you may have one too many plates in the clutch, or the center hub nut has come loose, allowing the hub to move outward. The last friction plate should still be well within the basket, not protruding half out of the slots. Check the hub nut!!! My money is on it coming loose.

When the clutch lever goes rock solid it's because the slave cylinder piston has run out of travel and bottomed on the engine case. This is what happened in both cases I found the internal nut had come loose.

 

[ehs749r]

I agree with El Twin. Have had the same problem with aftermarket levers when I didn't properly adjust the free play of the rod from the lever entering the master cylinder. Problem manifests itself once you're out riding for awhile and the fluid heats up and expands, at which point it ultimately exerts pressure on the clutch. Good luck getting it sorted.

 

[duhblow7]

Edit, after a second look it appears you may have one too many plates in the clutch, or the center hub nut has come loose, allowing the hub to move outward. The last friction plate should still be well within the basket, not protruding half out of the slots. Check the hub nut!!! My money is on it coming loose.

Perhaps your hub is loose and is moving outward. This to me would explain the situation.

That was it. Hub nut was loose. Very loose. At least 5 full rotations. I rigged up a bracket, ran to a friends house to borrow a 32mm socket and tightened the crap out of it.

Problem solved. Thanks a lot to everybody that responded. The dry clutch is a lot less intimidating now. Thanks guys.

 

[Aussie_Bob]

That was it. Hub nut was loose. Very loose. At least 5 full rotations. I rigged up a bracket, ran to a friends house to borrow a 32mm socket and tightened the crap out of it.

Problem solved. Thanks a lot to everybody that responded. The dry clutch is a lot less intimidating now. Thanks guys.

Thanks for the report back.

The dry clutch is pretty simple.

 

[duhblow7]

I guess I didn't tighten the hub nut down all the way.

I wasn't too far from home and was able to get a ride, pick up some tools, fix it on the side of the road and ride it home. Obviously going to torque it down really well before I ride it again. 130ft/lbs or so?

Just ordered a snap on torque wrench and the clutch tool/bracket.

It sure did look good while it lasted.

I also learned not to throw anodized aluminum in an ultra sonic cleaner.

 

[Tuned]

Ducati wants you to torque that sucker down to 250NM. I always tighten them to 100 foot pounds and use a dab of locktite to keep them secure. I find this is much better for ease of removal. The Ducati specs are whacko, I wouldn't put that much torque on a nut ever.

 

[Aussie_Bob]

^^
Why am I not surprised.