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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As title says.

The bike was a write off in NSW June 09 inspected and put back on the road in 2010

Legislation in Oz means the owner does not need to disclose the history neither does a dealer (Not true for all states)

1M8LP was original rego not current private plate as shown in the advert.

2008 Ducati Desmosedici RR

Save your money for an uncrashed one!

Copy of the Bike History report available if needed PM and I will email.

Regards

ScottyB
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
That's pretty harsh, man.

In Victoria at least it is a legal requirement to disclose a vehicles WOVR status, I don't know about NSW, but your laws are pretty messed up on the subject. Have a look at the current crop of bikes which a statutory write offs for no good reason apart from trying to stop habibs chop shop rebirthing bikes.

For all you know, it could have had some very, very minor damage that doesn't reflect it's true and current condition.

Anyway, your link says it's sold. So I'm guessing someone prepared to drop 50K on a bike would have done the correct checks to satisfy themselves.
Pretty Harsh?

Not as harsh as somebody trying to flog a written off Desmo and not disclosing it.

Call it a bit of public service and protection of the Ducati members on here a few I know are actively looking for Desmo's.

Very minor damage is unlikely to have classed it as a write off, it would need to be beyond economical repair.

I am Perth WA based where the law is in favour of the seller even if it is a registered garage, no disclosure required.

You are right it is sold, i too hope the buyer checked the history if not they are in for a surprise when they try and sell it.

Regards

ScottyB
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Did you personally contact the seller and did he not disclose the WOVR status?

I wouldn't be surprised if falling off the side stand made it a write off, it just about happens with an 1199 with Ducati's ridiculous pricing on parts.
Correct!

A polite detailed email sent asking about the status and history of the bike and querying the low price.

No reasonable explanation given hence the Bike History report purchase and disclosure here to protect others.

Regards

ScottyB
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If a bike has been repaired well can't see anything wrong with that .
Not like he is asking a premium price . A insurance company can quickly right off a Desmosedici with only cosmetic damage .
A scratch on the swingarm or rear set will warrant new replacements .
Has the OP viewed the bike in person if so what's the main concern with it ?
It takes a hell of a lot more than cosmetic damage to write a Desmo off, trust me I know!

No I didn't view the bike having confirmed it was classed as beyond economical repair and written off with no valid explanation forthcoming from the seller I moved on.

The description given by others seen at auction is a more realistic explanation of what written off looks like e.g. significant damage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
So what is wrong with the bike ? Why would you not touch it ?
A scratched swing arm and rear set and rashed fork lower and a few damaged panels can have a Desmosedici written off
Did you view or have any pictures before it was repaired . Do you know what was wrong with it ?

From what I can see it is priced way below what others are offering their bikes and it still was not selling .
Who said anything about me being concerned about the bike having anything "wrong" with it?

That could only be confirmed by a full inspection, my concern was purely that it was a write off.

Personal choice shared by many, why buy a previously written off bike? Unless you were planning to track it and therfore throw it down the road again.

Come resale time it is pretty clear that it would not be an easy sell regardless of the price difference as the current seller found out.

Why take the risk?

Why not pay the going market rate and buy a bike with more favourable history?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Your thread starter said "Don't Touch it".
A reasonable person would assume something is wrong with it . Yes ?
At $55,000 I would say he met the market considering the others are in the $70's so resale should not be a real concern .Yes ?

4 Ducati Desmosedici RR Bikes for Sale - bikesales.com.au

Plenty of bikes have been down the road and repaired doesn't mean they are bad bikes same goes with cars .
There is something wrong with it!

It has been deemed beyond economical repair AND the seller failed to disclose this even when given an opportunity to.

We are not talking about a repaired bike we are talking about one which has been written off, what is so difficult to get your head round?

On average it would need to have suffered say 20-30% of it's total value in damage before the Insurance Company would wash their hands of it.

Chances are this is one of the bikes seen at auction in 2009 so 20k+ worth of damage required to trigger it as a write off would be a fair assessment, still think it has just had a "scratch" to it's swingarm and a few panels?

You sound like the seller, happy to flog a bike on with questionable history and not declare it.

Simple acid test, would you be happy to buy it for your missus/family member knowing it had been written off?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Oh and he didn't meet market conditions.

A zero mile bike sold for 68k just 2 months ago.

I wouldn't call a 13k discount on a zero mile bike a bargain for a write off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
What was damaged on the bike ? Help me get me head around it .
Who cares?

The insurance company deemed it a write off, a formal assessment process recorded for all to see and documented related to that chassis and bike.

Common sense tells you that it therefore reduces the value as demonstrated, coupled with the attempt from the seller to be less than frank when prompted on the history.

When faced with this bike regardless of the cost and 4 other bikes why bother?

Unless you financially can't afford the going market rate for a Desmo and have to buy a cheaper written off model then buyer beware.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Scott, did you ever have any intention on purchasing the bike or are you a typical tyre kicker and time waster?

Because we're only hearing your side of the story and not the sellers. He probably picked you from a mile away and gave you nothing, I'd do the same.

I've been in the vehicle repair industry for well over 20 years and I know a thing or two about write off's and insurance companies.

As an example, a BMW workshop quoted a HP4 for an insurance claim and it came in circa 26K as they wanted to replace the frame because of stone chips. Chime in insurer moving the bike to another repairer who struggled to get circa 14k of repairs on the same bike.

There is little doubt the Desmo went to a Ducati dealer and was over quoted as usual coupled with parts delays and price so the simple fix was to write it off. potentially the client was a pedantic pain in the arse not helping his cause.

Now we come to the WOVR. The simple fact, if it's on the WOVR there is NOTHING structurally defective to prevent it from being put back on the road safely. If it's a stat, then it has some further damage but this doesn't guarantee it's unsafe either but authorities play on the cautious side.

Then NSW, everything is a STAT regardless how little damage and is horrifying seeing some bikes being a STAT for cosmetic damage.

I think you're being a bit of a twat about it, not everyone shares the same view as you, so move on.
Stu,

Let me help you out. I am anything but a tyre kicker

I have probably owned more Ducati's than you have had hot dinners, never assume it will make you look a complete ar5e.

I am actively looking for a Desmo however the difference is I am not going to overpay (Just have a look at the difference in prices on Bike Sales to gauge how wide the asking prices are) I also have a personal stance on bikes/cars and anything else declared a write off. Call it life experience

As I already disclosed I emailed the seller and ask pretty specific questions about the history having purchased the Bike History report (Not something tyre kickers normally do) and he failed to be transparent on his answers. Alarm bells start to ring for me at that point.

We can measure the length of our undercarriages when it comes to experience with vehicle write off's, I used to own an Insurance company so any time you want to pull up a sand bag let me know.

Because the seller was less than honest we can't guarantee anything including your misguided comment that "there is little doubt the Desmo went to a Ducati dealer"

It could easily have been the scenario I feared which was that the bike had extensive damage hence the write off decision.

We both know different garages will have wildly different quotes for repair which doesn't help buyers when considering buying write off's.

Surely a reasonable "genuine" seller would have photo's and info related to the repair which he would share to justify and demonstrate the work done?

I love the fact you think I am being a twat about it.

This isn't my first rodeo, I took the stance to "Warn" the forum members about the history of the bike as I would hope others would do for me.

Now if you are the kind of person who thinks it is ok to flog bikes with write off history to unsuspecting members of the public AND fail to disclose the history when asked then my choice to raise the issue is probably the right one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I stand by my previous comment, you're being a twat.

There is ZERO reason for you to tell people not to touch the bike, sure let us know it's on the WOVR but let the purchaser make the decision on whether they want the stigma of a WOVR status or not.

Once again, you're telling us your side, the seller is no where to be seen to quantify their position on the sale. It's plausible they purchased the bike already repaired and re-registered which would also excuse them from having evidence of previous damage. Where was the bike located and where was it's WOVR status registered?

You owned and insurance company? Well, actually it's not impossible for a small time person to start an insurance company. So how did it work out for you?

By the way, your stance to 'warn' people has gone well and beyond just a warning. You've made every assumption under the sun that there is something 'wrong' with the bike with little more evidence than a return email you weren't content with. It also stands to reason you wanted a bargain, hence why you made the enquiry and then got all upset, high and mighty even though the advertised price let alone the sale price reflects the WOVR status.

You owned an insurance company, tell us the average percentage reduction in value applied to a vehicle on the WOVR.
I love "Keyboard" warriors! Feel free to PM over your mobile number and we can discuss this like "Adults" :jerkoff:
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Ok first I fully understand the part about Ducati dealers, especially in such a large country as yours where the network is sparse and you have so little choice with dealers. I think many Ducati owners, especially outside of Europe simply don't know that the dealer network is actually nothing more than a connected group of private businesses authorised to sell and maintain Ducati products but are not in fact part of the Ducati company. So yeah, I get that comment because not all dealers are created equal.

But in this case I think it's fair to point it that it appears to have been written off twice within the warranty period.



I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of any of this but if i were a potential owner I would want to and I think that if the vendor did not disclose this info freely there is something disingenuous about it. I'd not sell you a five grand bike without telling you if I knew it had been down the road let alone one I was asking ten times that for.

So yeah if this had not been through the Ducati dealer network and documented? I'd not be happy with it, and that Wilks, is as best a way I can answer your 'Why?' question. In these circumstances it all seems odd.

As I say, I'm awaiting the vehicle's history from Ducati for no other reason than it's all starting to get a bit rude over a post I think was a public service.

Is it fair to judge a bike without seeing it? Probably not, but is it fair to make assumptions about a bike when you know that there is pertinent information that the vendor is seemingly and deliberately not disclosing? I'd say so, enough to be suspicious at least. Caveat Emptor as they used to say in Rome.

And here's the kicker for me. If it's so cheap as to be well below market value then any potential buyer who didn't ask "what's wrong with it?" needs his head examined because if you were told 'nothing' and get a shock later at least you have a legal case for being mis-sold.
Zoot,

Thanks for the post, just to point out and to provide balance I don't think it has been written off twice in the Warranty Period.

The way the records are maintained and printed shows 2 entries, one for the initial Write Off and the second about 1 year later (Roughly because I dont have the report in front of me and your pic in your post didn't load for me) is the Inspection for it to be deemed road worthy again.

At first glance it looks like 2 seperate cases but they are in effect the same.

Happy to be a man about it and take the moral high ground:

Should the original post have been titled "Do Not Touch" in hindsight no because it has been taken out of context and that is my opinion.

Do I stand by letting people know of my concerns, absolutely and I would hope others would do the same, of course.

It seems like there is a much more open attitude to confirmed write offs here in Oz (Not what I am used to) and that is a learning point for me.

Regards

ScottyB
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Thanks Scotty. As I said i don't understand it as that report is not in a format i'm familiar with. If you would like me to alter the post I fine with that. Otherwise i'll just add a great big I COULD BE WRONG, I OFTEN AM here :)
Happy for you to leave as is mate, no apology required. It is an easy mistake to make.

Give my regards to the team at Ducati UK when you next speak to them.

Although they will just think I am some "Small time" person who made up owning an Insurance company on a forum and probably won't remember me...lol ;)

Sorry couldn't resist.........
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Sheesh, some people are pretty sensitive. No wonder litigation is so prevalent in some western societies!
Either way, if a certain individual was such a hot-shot, why isn't his arse parked on an invite on Superlegopener?
Yawn............

Stu Cazzo by name Stu Cazzo by nature eh?

You don't know me from Adam yet you already have me boxed, sounds like you have some serious issues. For the record I am not a hot shot that is your assessment, I am a run of the mill Ducati fan and owner, you are behaving exactly like those outside of the brand "think" we are like...............Well done for playing up to the stereotype.

And for the record I was offered an SL as were hundreds of others but I declined, it is part of Ducati's proven roll out plan to offer bikes to previous owners of limited edition runs.

Anyone can contact Ducati Oz and grab one of several cancelled orders anyway so they are not that difficult to obtain if people want one.
 
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