Ducati.org forum banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In my quest for a viable 749S within my budget (hehehe....) I have been checking out the following bike:

???????!??? DUCATI 749S ? ???? ??????? - ????!

A slide show with many photos is here:

http://yahoo.jp/box/58RUim

In short: 749S, april 2004, ODO readings: May 2014 13,600 km (8500 mls) Feb. 2012 12,600 km (7875 mls), Feb. 2010 6,900 km (4300 mls - this information is written on the "car inspection certificate" which is mandatory for motorcycles > 250 cc). The bike comes without any service history, so I know I will have to replace the belts / oil / filter / brake fluid, etc. The bike has been on Yahoo Auctions since May 2013 and I have been following it since about 3 months. In that period, the price has gone down from JPY 650.000, to JPY 600.000 JPY, then JPY 550.000 JPY, but now he is back up at JPY 598.000 :(

I contacted the seller and he told me that the bike has only one, black, key and no code card. How necessary is the code card? Do you need to "red" key? Do I need to replace the ignition lock if there is no code card?

I also note that the swing-arm is 2003/2004 but the fairing seems to be 2005 (only single scoops on the front). The left and right bar ends are different, and there are some touch-ups on the left fairing and on the exhaust panel, so I think the bike has experienced at least one accident. From the wear marks on the tyres I infer that the bike has seen some track duty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,127 Posts
Don't really need the red key unless you plan on loosing the black key. It's pretty easy to disable the immobilizer and not need it as well. So I wouldn't base my bike purchase off having a red key or not.

It can be a red flag that the key's are missing however, maybe the owner isn't so good with keeping records and taking care of their bike, ya know?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
If you have a working black key, a good locksmith can clone it. You only need the code card if you're programming new keys from scratch.

+1 to @Tuned's comments re what it may say about the previous owner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It can be a red flag that the key's are missing however, maybe the owner isn't so good with keeping records and taking care of their bike, ya know?
There are a couple of things that don't really add up. There are scratches all over the bike, also on the swing arm (left and right). If a bike has a non-standard fairing then usually you get the standard fairing as well (*). If the original fairing is not available that usually means it was broken beyond repair. That may indicate a (considerable ?) crash. And indeed, I also don't understand why somebody would sell their Ducati with only one key, no manual, no code card, etc. The seller makes it no secret that he has zero knowledge of the history of the bike....

With 13.500 km I guess the engine should be OK. I contacted the seller to go and have a look.....

(*) it's a legal issue, the registration papers mention a certain color, specifications of the exhaust system, etc so when you go to the "car inspection" you need to have the original fairing, exhausts, etc - what you do after that makes no difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
I just bought a gorgeous 999 without the red key owners manual or code card from a silly CAR dealer....why?? Because I test rode it and evaluated it on my own terms. If it didn't make me smile when I rode it or if the bike looked like it was trashed I would NEVER get involved with it. But my bike had all the goodies I liked except for a dumb stabilizer, and low miles. The local shop is a Blessing who actually cares enough to help me. They are having the ECU reprogrammed and including the mapping for the exhaust which probably was never done in the first place. That way we get rid of the menacing problem of the "no red key" and worries over the immobilizer malfunctioning, because it will be disabled. This immobilizer has terrorized scores of people in fear of not being able to start their bike if something goes wrong and they don't have the infamous red key. I went through this before when I bought a 999S with the red key but no code card in the owners manual......I lived in fear for years!!! I think it's all bullshit, really.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
TUNED;


Can you tell me if it matters "who" reprograms the ECU ?

My local shop sent mine out.....do they have good and bad places to send it? They told me that they specified a flash for half system exhaust.....that ECU is the whole deal, eh?

On my Triumph, the dealer uploads data directly to the bike. Why does this ECU have to be sent "out".....they build race bikes at this shop and everything, it's a full service, Ducati only high rated shop.....so my question is WHY...why don't they have the ability to reprogram the ECU themselves?

I'll ask them actually to see what they say also
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,127 Posts
Can you tell me if it matters "who" reprograms the ECU ?
I've found the same problem here as well. The only thought I have relates to dealerships and local bylaws about messing with the emissions systems. It's one thing if you're a little garage somewhere, it's another if you sell NEW bikes.

The hardware and software CAN be mighty expensive as well. Unless you do a LOT of tuning, it may not be worth it for you. That could be another reason why shops don't have them.

:: RexXer ECU-Tuning ::

Pro Tune - Powertune

In terms of sending an ECU out to someone WITHOUT a motorcycle, it's a risk. I suggest it because it's a lot cheaper then buying a piggyback ECU and if it works, the results are MUCH better. I personally have no experience sending an ECU out because I've always run an aftermarket ECU (Nemesis/Microtech) or EPROM in the older bikes. The nice thing about the aftermarket ECU's that for not much more money, you can tune the damn thing without any special hardware. Plus, it's unlimited tuning, do what you want, when you want and it can be a lot of fun to learn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
With such an interesting history, check to see if the immobilizer is even still active. My bike came with 2 black keys and the immobilizer disabled by a previous owner. To get a new key, I can have a new one cut anywhere as the transponder doesn't matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
From what I see in the pictures is that it is not an "s" because it has Showa shocks and I also noticed the lack of vertical slits above the air intakes. That would indicate a newer fairing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
From what I see in the pictures is that it is not an "s" because it has Showa shocks and I also noticed the lack of vertical slits above the air intakes. That would indicate a newer fairing.
In Japan only the 749S and 749R were available, the 749 and 749 Dark were never imported. The 749 sold in Japan differs from the European and US versions, for example the front fork, and the exhaust and clutch cover are more "silent". On Japanese 749s the display says "EU" when you turn the key, I don't know if that means "EU" ECU version or just the display units (km/h vs mph, Celsius vs Fahrenheit).

The original colors for the 749S sold in Japan are solid red and solid yellow; the fairing on this bike is certainly aftermarket.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I just bought a gorgeous 999 without the red key owners manual or code card from a silly CAR dealer....why?? Because I test rode it and evaluated it on my own terms.
Hahaha, good one. In Japan you can __never__ take a test drive / test ride. Usually they will not even start the engine. In other words, it is impossible to know exactly what you buy and the only thing you can hope for is that the seller will honour the 3 months warranty that they usually promise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
From what I see in the pictures is that it is not an "s" because it has Showa shocks and I also noticed the lack of vertical slits above the air intakes. That would indicate a newer fairing.
It's an S alright. The S model has Showa fork with TiN coating and multiple rearset positions on the frame. That particular bike seems to be a mix of old and new parts - black wheels and fairing from a new model and frame, swingarm and belt covers from older model.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That particular bike seems to be a mix of old and new parts - black wheels and fairing from a new model and frame, swingarm and belt covers from older model.
jusutus, thanks for this comment. Indeed, I should have had checked Bikez.com - Online motorcycle catalogue more closely:

2003 - 2004: grey frame, banana swing arm, grey wheels, double intake slits, 2 dots on the belt cover

2005 - 2006: red & black frame (at least for the red bikes), box swing arm, black wheels, single intake slits, L-shaped belt cover.

Mmmm, a mix of old & new parts.... Is this a red flag or should I not read too much into it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
It's an S alright. The S model has Showa fork with TiN coating and multiple rearset positions on the frame. That particular bike seems to be a mix of old and new parts - black wheels and fairing from a new model and frame, swingarm and belt covers from older model.
My bad! Was thinking all the s models had Ohlin suspension.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
My bad! Was thinking all the s models had Ohlin suspension.
My knowledge in this area is insufficient, but as far as I know some components differ depending on the "market" where the bike is sold. The "EU" version is different from the US version is different from the Japanese version - and even within the EU version there are differences, e.g. "French" motorcycles are all restricted to max. 100 HP, and for the UK there are yet other differences. Some things depend on the local environmental regulations (crank case ventilation, exhaust, clutch cover), some things depend on availability of parts (Marzocchi vs Showa vs Ohlins), etc.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top