Ducati.org forum banner
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
509 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys, so I got my bike the other day and when I first pulled the lever at the dealer I knew the front brake would need bled. So I did that but it still feels the same. It needs "pumped" up to work really and after doing more research it seems like the hypermotard guys have a problem w there brakes which are the same m4-32 mono blocks and there master cylinder. It seems the problem is the caliper Pistons stay in the compressed phase and don't suck back easily creating a vaccume in the master cylinder?

Idk what to do at this point, bike is absolutely unsafe to ride and have only 39miles on it. Dealer is of absolutely no help, there mechanics are a joke and never take anything there unless it's on fire or has a rod hanging out the block.


I've never had brake problems on any of my motorcycles and bleeding always went well, doing reverse pressure bleeding from bottom up but after reading about the hypermotard guys I think there is a design flaw present


Anyone have any insight?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,790 Posts
Hi guys, so I got my bike the other day and when I first pulled the lever at the dealer I knew the front brake would need bled. So I did that but it still feels the same. It needs "pumped" up to work really and after doing more research it seems like the hypermotard guys have a problem w there brakes which are the same m4-32 mono blocks and there master cylinder. It seems the problem is the caliper Pistons stay in the compressed phase and don't suck back easily creating a vaccume in the master cylinder?

Idk what to do at this point, bike is absolutely unsafe to ride and have only 39miles on it. Dealer is of absolutely no help, there mechanics are a joke and never take anything there unless it's on fire or has a rod hanging out the block.


I've never had brake problems on any of my motorcycles and bleeding always went well, doing reverse pressure bleeding from bottom up but after reading about the hypermotard guys I think there is a design flaw present


Anyone have any insight?
I am not familiar with your particular model, but it does sound like it has air in the hydraulic system, as you diagnosed.

Did you bleed it at the master cylinder, as well as the calipers? Air can collect at the highest point in the system, which can get trapped in the radial-type master cylinders. I'm fairly sure the 821 runs these.

So a careful bleed from the master cylinder bleeder should yield some air bubbles. Be sure to rinse it off afterwards with a spray bottle of water so no residual fluid can blow onto your paintwork.

If you still have problems, and don't trust your local dealer, I know there are some better Ducati shops in Lauderdale. Even though I am a little way away..

;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
509 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
****UPDATE

Got my new front master cylinder installed and bleed, brakes feel exactly the same!
Also felt 2 brand new monsters at the dealer and they both go 80% to the bar the first pull, then half way then 25% squish then semi stiff after successful pumps of the lever.

This is not normal, and all there bikes are equally messed up!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,304 Posts
This is obviously not normal behavior for any brake system.

When you apply the brakes do you feel any pulsing at the lever?

The reason I ask is because a warped rotor will push the brake pads and caliper pistons back, so that upon the first application of the brakes, part of the lever movement moves the pistons back into position and the rest of the lever pull presses the pistons against the brake pads and rotor.

The caliper pistons are then in position, so a second application of the brakes (soon after the first) requires less lever movement to actuate the brakes. Ride for a while and the pads and pistons are pushed away from the rotor again and the cycle repeats.

If it's not a warped rotor, then something else is moving the caliper piston back/away from the rotor.

There are similar complaints about Hypermotard brakes.

I believe that Ducati is having a problem with a batch of caliper piston dust boot seals that are too stiff – or somehow different – and consequently apply a small force that slowly retracts the pistons. Just like with a warped rotor, the first pull moves the pistons part way into position and the second level pull (and sometimes a third) completes the piston’s proper positioning against the rotor. Ride for a while and too-stiff seals retract the pistons again and the cycle repeats.

Replacing the calipers won’t solve the problem if the replacement caliper has a piston seal with the same material/design.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
509 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
This is obviously not normal behavior for any brake system.

When you apply the brakes do you feel any pulsing at the lever?

The reason I ask is because a warped rotor will push the brake pads and caliper pistons back, so that upon the first application of the brakes, part of the lever movement moves the pistons back into position and the rest of the lever pull presses the pistons against the brake pads and rotor.

The caliper pistons are then in position, so a second application of the brakes (soon after the first) requires less lever movement to actuate the brakes. Ride for a while and the pads and pistons are pushed away from the rotor again and the cycle repeats.

If it's not a warped rotor, then something else is moving the caliper piston back/away from the rotor.

There are similar complaints about Hypermotard brakes.

I believe that Ducati is having a problem with a batch of caliper piston dust boot seals that are too stiff – or somehow different – and consequently apply a small force that slowly retracts the pistons. Just like with a warped rotor, the first pull moves the pistons part way into position and the second level pull (and sometimes a third) completes the piston’s proper positioning against the rotor. Ride for a while and too-stiff seals retract the pistons again and the cycle repeats.

Replacing the calipers won’t solve the problem if the replacement caliper has a piston seal with the same material/design.


Ok this is what I intitially thought because I've had litearly 20+ bikes before and raced for many years all sorts of bikes and touring cars professionaly. It is not warped rotors or air in the system so perhaps the pistons aren't retraction as mentioned. In this case what do I do?

Btw I screwed up by taking it in and the broke my turn signal and put a few scratches in the bike among some other little things. It will not be going back into any dealer for any service I will continue to do everything myself even if warranty would have paid for it.

If the calipers are the culprit creating a vaccume situation to the lever I'm not sure how to get the "same size" seal that's microscopically smaller since it would have to be same part. The bike is still unsafe for track and I will be missing this weekend again and the entire rest of year now due to my travel schedule :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
I've got a Monster 821 and have no such problem. My front brake is outstandingly sharpe.
Therefore, Shazaam's tip of a faulty batch sounds about right.
I know it is a pain, but the bike is new and not fit for purpose, or safe, therefore you should ask for a replacement bike now, or your money back in full.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
509 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I've got a Monster 821 and have no such problem. My front brake is outstandingly sharpe.
Therefore, Shazaam's tip of a faulty batch sounds about right.
I know it is a pain, but the bike is new and not fit for purpose, or safe, therefore you should ask for a replacement bike now, or your money back in full.

Problem is the dealer has 4 bikes that are identicle. The head mechanic (who is retarded) rode t and gave me big thumbs up its working great which it isn't...

They don't want to get the front brake system workig properly
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
509 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Contact the US Customer Service Manager at:

Ducati North America, Inc.
10443 Bandley Drive
Cupertino, California 95014

Ph: (408) 253-0499
Fax: (408) 253-4099
E-mail: [email protected]

Thanks for the info. The email doesn't work but the phone does.
They said im first customer to bring up or complain about caliper piston seals so we need to get more people to just call and complain about them if there lever isn't incredibly stiff like it should be.

Complained about my local dealer being morons and asked for there assistance to make me a priority repair at a further dealer.

Will post updates as follows
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
375 Posts
Whats your build date? Maybe be helpful to have that info from everyone that is having the issue to narrow it down. Maybe get the build dates from the ones at the dealership too.

Hopefully you sort it out soon! That blows.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
509 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well I finally rode the bike after fixing all the shit the dealer (European motorcycles of Pittsburgh aka BMWpgh.com) and the bike feels like it makes 20-30less HP and all the throttle modes are fucked up. Engine runs smooth but it takes litearly 1/3rd twist to get it to rev to 5-6k in N or w clutch in. Yes all modes and throttle settings even tho there is a big jump between modes it's WAY more sluggish than previously so I'm sure they FLASHED the ecu, question is how do I get it back to the factory mapping?

Still waiting on Ducati North America to get back to me w there "priority repair" as they drag there feet or said forget this guy all together.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top