[ducafix]

Bike was making a nasty clunking noise increasing with revs. Here's what was stuck to the oil screen.. Lots of copper looking sparkles and bits, and a few large shavings too. Rest of the oil had an almost graphite or lead pencil dust in it.

Only 4k on the engine, never even tracked or abused. Anyone care to suggest next step towards confirming the nightmare? I have the alternator side cover off, that bearing looks fine for what it's worth. Should I take the basket out and try for play in the crank?

Thanks all

Edit; yes the 3 big chunks up top are metal, not gasket

 

[Tchase]

Bike was making a nasty clunking noise increasing with revs. Here's what was stuck to the oil screen.. Lots of copper looking sparkles and bits, and a few large shavings too. Rest of the oil had an almost graphite or lead pencil dust in it.

Only 4k on the engine, never even tracked or abused. Anyone care to suggest next step towards confirming the nightmare? I have the alternator side cover off, that bearing looks fine for what it's worth. Should I take the basket out and try for play in the crank?

Thanks all

Edit; yes the 3 big chunks up top are metal, not gasket

Not much to confirm the copper says it all. It is really surprising with such low mileage and no track and I have experienced this is usually the result of abusing the Rev limiter. Are you the only owner?

You options will be:
Rebuild yourself ( a big job)
Pay to have a dealer rebuild $$$
Send it out to have it rebuilt 3k not including parts or shipping
Buy an ebay/used motor

 

[ducafix]

Its not my bike, belongs to a relative..I'm doing the wrenching as its in my garage and I'm bored

He's also not the only owner, though it had very low miles when he got it. Regardless, there's no telling how it was treated during those important first miles when new.

I'm advocating for an 1198 swap, as evidenced by the other thread I posted here yesterday asking about ECU compatibility. Regardless, it looks to be a minimum $3k expenditure no matter which route he chooses.

It does leave me wondering how much I could reclaim if I parted the bike out.....

 

[Tchase]

Its not my bike, belongs to a relative..I'm doing the wrenching as its in my garage and I'm bored

He's also not the only owner, though it had very low miles when he got it. Regardless, there's no telling how it was treated during those important first miles when new.

I'm advocating for an 1198 swap, as evidenced by the other thread I posted here yesterday asking about ECU compatibility. Regardless, it looks to be a minimum $3k expenditure no matter which route he chooses.

It does leave me wondering how much I could reclaim if I parted the bike out.....

The Engine swap while possible I'm not sure the most economical. The minimum would be an Ebay purchase well under 2k.


Parting it out is typically your best way to recover the most cash, just take time.

 

[ducafix]

I wouldn't throw a used 848 engine into the bike.. From what I see on eBay, they're around 1500-1800 where the better 1198 motor is 22-2500. No sense doing the work and risking another dud 848.

 

[Tchase]

I wouldn't throw a used 848 engine into the bike.. From what I see on eBay, they're around 1500-1800 where the better 1198 motor is 22-2500. No sense doing the work and risking another dud 848.

Your risk is not greater or less on a dud be it 1198/848 engine (used).

I'm on my second Ebay engine first one I got 15kmiles before I lost the bearing.

It's actually not a lot of work pulling the engine and dropping in a new one. But if you are dropping in an 1198 into a 848 wire harness and ECU you will have problems. Not to mention other fitment issues.

If I wasn't so anal about cleaning I would of had this one running in a day....

But it's winter so I'm in no rush

 

[ducafix]

I hear the 1198 may not suffer the same potential bearing issues so in addition to it just being a huge power boost it may prove more reliable. I'd swap ECUs and airbox and throttle bodies. By most accounts the ECUs will swap right over. I'll cross that bridge if I get there, though.

 

[Tchase]

I hear the 1198 may not suffer the same potential bearing issues so in addition to it just being a huge power boost it may prove more reliable. I'd swap ECUs and airbox and throttle bodies. By most accounts the ECUs will swap right over. I'll cross that bridge if I get there, though.

Might want to check the harness out and exhaust.

 

[ManualTrans]

maybe try to rebuild it and throw in the better bearings this time. should help for reliability.

 

[96300NAZ]

Might want to check the harness out and exhaust.

I posted on the other ECU thread OP was talking about. Ducati Indy said there isnt much to swap. Eccentric hub, Rear Wheel, Exhaust, Intake stacks.

 

[spoonz]

I am pretty sure i read that all but the early 848's run the same bearings as an 1198, so there is no extra reliability in having the bigger motor.

As far as I could see on the parts fiche they share the same bearing part numbers.

 

[ducafix]

I am pretty sure i read that all but the early 848's run the same bearings as an 1198, so there is no extra reliability in having the bigger motor.

As far as I could see on the parts fiche they share the same bearing part numbers.

I'll have to check that out, but for what its worth, the problems could easily be attributed to poor tolerances and machining instead of bad bearings. Also what I've read is that several manufacturers supplied bearings, and if Ducati was lazy about it and kept the same part number that could also explain a discrepancy.

Gotta look deeper into it.

 

[vfrman]

I bet if you changed out the harness and ECU, along with an aftermarket full exhaust, there will be no issues with it running.

 

[Tchase]

Don't get me wrong I don't want to be the nay sayer. My only opinion that I believe to be more factual is it will be less costly to drop in the same model motor and with regards to reliability used is used...

I've just never been much to up power with upgrades, be it a computer or a bike if I want more power I upgrade the M/B and processor if I want more HP I'll move up to a 1000CC but I'm no where near needing more power on the 848 yet...

 

[ducafix]

Again, what I've read indicated that the 1198 may be more robust, but as mentioned they do share bearing part numbers. However, its probably not the fault of the bearings but rather machining tolerances being too tight. Its quite plausible that Ducati caught on and smartened up on the 1198, but that's a guess. Someone would need to have taken apart several motors to compare measurements from factory.

As for more power - the 848 isn't even mine, it belongs to a family member and is stored in my garage. I'm bored so I offered to fix it. If it were mine there would be no questions, it'd get an 1198 mill. But I would've bought an 1198 to begin with power is everything, I've been spoiled by liter bikes for years now.

 

[ManualTrans]

A quote from the ducshop in another thread.

Blueprint (all Ducati's for the track) to make it reliable and upgrade the stock cheap main rollers used in the 848 and 2 valve Ducati's. If it, or the stock tight rod bearing clearance causes a spun bearing then you will damage a lot of good parts. Top bearing is 848 stock, bottom is stock on 998, 999, 1198...

So as mentioned, maybe next season I'll tear my engine apart and install those bad boys.

 

[ducktard]

As far as the 1198 being more robust, i hate bust your bubble. The only thing is perhaps the 1198 won't get wrung out as much because it inherently makes a bit more stink. My 'low mileage' 1198 had already hammered a bearing and was working on spinning it when, by chance, i went in for a balance/blueprint.
Fox Performance and Duckshop both agree that the problem is a to tight journal/ bearing tolerance. Their blueprints involve, among other things, making these tolerances bigger than OE. This allows more oil to be present in that interface area.If you want to know what spec they build them to you'll have to take one of their motors apart and measure, as they are not tellin