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509 Posts
so?
899R ever coming?
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1,501 Posts
Nope. I'd hope they wouldn't do a half-assed attempt at an R middleweight, because the likelyhood of them building a true one would upstage the base model 1199/1299 as far as specs go. Can't have that.
A Corse SE would be as close as the 899 would get later on in its production life.
A Corse SE would be as close as the 899 would get later on in its production life.
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2,127 Posts
Thats right, it's not coming. Just like the 848R never happened.
The R models only exist as homologation specials for professional racing. Since the 848/899 can't be raced in the World Supersport class, there is no need for Ducati to make a homologation special.
The "R" models of previous made sense because the base engines back then were real dogs. Today, the base engines aren't all that bad.
The R models only exist as homologation specials for professional racing. Since the 848/899 can't be raced in the World Supersport class, there is no need for Ducati to make a homologation special.
The "R" models of previous made sense because the base engines back then were real dogs. Today, the base engines aren't all that bad.
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509 Posts
woah, sure looks like we got some elitist literbike snobs in here.
News flash... 95% of all sportbikes sold never see a track day, let alone a race. Porsche, lambo and ferrari dont build RS/superleggeras/scuderias for racing and guess what they are huge money makers.
I dont want another 1000 for the simple fact I want to be able to wring the bikes neck a little but dont want a bargin bin 899 or jap bike for it.
The 848 evo corse SE was pretty close other than down on power, had the ohlins rear TC ABS and some other cool bits, the 749R was kick ass. At least give me the best 899 you can make for 21grand and call it the 899 evo or corse whatever, just make a better bike.
News flash... 95% of all sportbikes sold never see a track day, let alone a race. Porsche, lambo and ferrari dont build RS/superleggeras/scuderias for racing and guess what they are huge money makers.
I dont want another 1000 for the simple fact I want to be able to wring the bikes neck a little but dont want a bargin bin 899 or jap bike for it.
The 848 evo corse SE was pretty close other than down on power, had the ohlins rear TC ABS and some other cool bits, the 749R was kick ass. At least give me the best 899 you can make for 21grand and call it the 899 evo or corse whatever, just make a better bike.
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8,735 Posts
Liter bike snobs?? Aren't you selling a Desmosedici now or have in the past?? :stickpoke
Buy an 899 and put $6k into it if that's what you want. The only reason the R models exist is for RACING, it has nothing to do with the other 95% of sport bikes. The 749R was eligible for supersport a while back, after that they kept increasing the displacement and neither the 848 or 899 would make it, so there's no point to it. I highly doubt they would be big money makers like you think...not many people looking at buying a $20k+ bike that's not as fast as a bone stock $15k ZX10R or CBR1000.
The 899 was a good middleweight option for people who 1) didn't want 195 hp and 2) didn't want to spend that much more money. But the only way Ducati could offer that package was to cut some costs (which they did with the swing arm, the instrument dash, and engine)...they sure as hell weren't going to load it up with Ohlins and other gizmos and raise the price higher than an 1199. That would make no sense. At that point it'd be a 1199S that costs about the same but 50 hp less
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509 Posts
I dont think most people REALLY want a 185whp bike. They think they do until they get one and then end up either adding another 600 back to the garage or trading it for one when they get bored of leaving it in 3rd gear all day and just becoming a passenger on the bike. Theres too much of a "fine tuned race machine" gap between the middle and litres.
Triumph had the right idea with the 675R, yamaha had the r1 LE and now the M model but they need to make a better middleweight.
KTM now as the rc390 over here which is essentially an "R" model ninja/cbr 300 for all intents and purposes. They are also coming out with a club racer CR version for 10grand with a bunch of racing bits on it this coming xmas.
the rc390 is going to be the biggest money maker for ktm, why? because its that R model of what are garbage beginner bikes and now theres a version someone with some real experience can enjoy or a beginner can ride without out growing very quickly
I think there will be a better 899 version coming. It may go by a name other than "R" but there will be something coming. Its possibly the best mix of power for most riders who want to have the MOST amount of FUN possible, not set records or brag but to actually smile so hard they need botox to turn them back to normal which is the whole point for riding in the first place and why were all members on here because we cant get enuff bike talk done during the day
Triumph had the right idea with the 675R, yamaha had the r1 LE and now the M model but they need to make a better middleweight.
KTM now as the rc390 over here which is essentially an "R" model ninja/cbr 300 for all intents and purposes. They are also coming out with a club racer CR version for 10grand with a bunch of racing bits on it this coming xmas.
the rc390 is going to be the biggest money maker for ktm, why? because its that R model of what are garbage beginner bikes and now theres a version someone with some real experience can enjoy or a beginner can ride without out growing very quickly
I think there will be a better 899 version coming. It may go by a name other than "R" but there will be something coming. Its possibly the best mix of power for most riders who want to have the MOST amount of FUN possible, not set records or brag but to actually smile so hard they need botox to turn them back to normal which is the whole point for riding in the first place and why were all members on here because we cant get enuff bike talk done during the day
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The RC390 is not at "R" model of its japanese counter parts...that's apples and oranges...totally different bike. And the CR version you mention is not for anyone to buy, it's only for racers (at least here in the US). See last paragraph here: KTM Announces Details on RC 390 Cup Racebike | Sport Rider
So KTM took an entry level bike and made a special version of it that's more badass...for racing...go figure!
Personally I agree with you that having a liter bike for the street is pretty pointless, but a lot of people don't think the same way. But similarly, it's also pointless to have some special R model or some other edition like that for the street. Do you really NEED that Ohlins suspension when putting around town?? Do you really NEED that launch control, slipper clutch, quick-shifter, auto blipper, etc. for the street?? The answer is no to all of those. For racing yes, but since the 899 is not legal for any class, there's no reason to bother.
However, I can see them making some "end of model" edition for its last year just like they did with the 848 SE...but then you'll be paying the extra money for basically a paint job, and they might throw in a couple of other things.
So KTM took an entry level bike and made a special version of it that's more badass...for racing...go figure!
Personally I agree with you that having a liter bike for the street is pretty pointless, but a lot of people don't think the same way. But similarly, it's also pointless to have some special R model or some other edition like that for the street. Do you really NEED that Ohlins suspension when putting around town?? Do you really NEED that launch control, slipper clutch, quick-shifter, auto blipper, etc. for the street?? The answer is no to all of those. For racing yes, but since the 899 is not legal for any class, there's no reason to bother.
However, I can see them making some "end of model" edition for its last year just like they did with the 848 SE...but then you'll be paying the extra money for basically a paint job, and they might throw in a couple of other things.
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Ahh, so you don't know what an R model is then.
Ducati's homologation special R model's are generally an entirely different motor in every single way then the standard S or base engines. Dating back to the first R, the 748R which was based on the 996 engine cases, not the 916 like the base and S 748. The 748R had a much lighter crank, flywheel, titanium rods, titanium valves, hotter cam's, a higher tuned combustion chamber, better "racing" gear ratio's and slipper clutch. All the bits you can see from the exterior, are just bolt-on bits that have no real effect on the performance. The engine is what makes the "R" models, not the bolt on bits.
The 848 never came close to being an R model, not in any way shape or form. It's actually a very detuned engine, with a worthless gearbox and unfortunately way down on power for it's displacement category…. my stock 749R made more power then my race-built 848 did and it was more fun to ride because it screamed.
So… sure 899 Corse Evo SE, whatever… you're talking about a 899 with Öhlins basically. Honestly, I'd rather buy the bits and throw it on myself. The Ducati OEM Öhlins bits kinda suck and for the added money, what's the point?
My point from earlier is that Ducati has no reason to make an 899R because frankly, nobody will buy a $20k 899 when they can buy a 18k 1299. I know you say people don't need 190rwhp, but it's not about that. They see pretty shiny and big HP/displacement numbers and they buy… that's how Ducati stays in business. People with their head screwed on properly, don't buy Ducati sport bikes.
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My guess is it will follow the path of the 848 and get an Evo treatment. Probably get the brakes from the 1199, an Ohlins rear and the electronics package of the new bikes. Even that may be a stretch. The bike is already a fantastic machine on track out of the box, so I doubt there will be many engine upgrades.
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They will surely bring back the midrange just like they did with the 1299...
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I don't think the mid range is lacking. I had an 848 Evo and now I have an 899. IMHO I feel the engine is better stock in every way. Also to note, the way they added mid range for the superbike was to add displacement which for sure will not happen with the 899.
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ahh hell, maby I should just get an 848 corse se. My 1198 had so much character that the new ones lack a little of.
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To each their own. I liked my 848 evo, but for me the 899 is better out of the box performance wise in every way. The biggest positive change was the handling without a doubt. I don't think you could go wrong with either bike. The 848 will just need a couple of changes to the geometry to get it into the ball park with other bikes. Should be noted, my 899 is for track only. Good luck with your decision.
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2,127 Posts
899 has a much better engine and proper geometry out of the box. You can get the geometry pretty close on the 848, but you can't get that engine. If you think the 899 is good… you should ride a 749R with 848cc kit and RS cam's.
Proper geometry, plenty of power and the proper gearbox.
Proper geometry, plenty of power and the proper gearbox.
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There will be no 899R. What would be the point? Ducati's R models are made for one group of people only. Ducati Corse. They are made for no other reason than the homologation rules require that a certain number of bikes are sold to the public before they can be raced.
There is simply no need to go to the expense of making an R model for a bike that will never be raced in anything but a one-bike/manufacturer series. And that expense is far greater than you might at first consider. They have to create a world series capable bike that suits the race team then make it legal and affordable for the street.
The R models were never made for you. The fact that you could buy one was simply a side-effect of the racing rulebook. Most manufacturers would rather not make homologation specials. It's expensive, time-consuming and gives your opponents the opportunity to interrogate your bike. That's just the nature of production bike racing at the highest level.
You will see new models. You will have the opportunity to purchase a bike of higher spec than the standard models to date. They will however be the usual parts-bin specials and bear no resemblance to what many would consider an R model. Like the 848 before it an homologation bike has no need to exist.
If Ducati wanted to sell R models to the public based on perceived demand then there would be 10000 a year made as opposed to the absolute minimum required.
If you need a race-spec 899 then buy an S and have it built by the many capable specialists out there. A Ducati R is not like a trophy wife you just pick up and show off.
For all of the above reasons you won't see a 1299R either. You will see smaller displacement bikes and you will see Ducati to continue their usual roadmap in sport bike development although it's now a little different given that the 899 was a year later than that previous roadmap would have suggested.
That's first-hand company knowledge. Not guesswork and self-aggrandizing bullshit.
There is simply no need to go to the expense of making an R model for a bike that will never be raced in anything but a one-bike/manufacturer series. And that expense is far greater than you might at first consider. They have to create a world series capable bike that suits the race team then make it legal and affordable for the street.
The R models were never made for you. The fact that you could buy one was simply a side-effect of the racing rulebook. Most manufacturers would rather not make homologation specials. It's expensive, time-consuming and gives your opponents the opportunity to interrogate your bike. That's just the nature of production bike racing at the highest level.
You will see new models. You will have the opportunity to purchase a bike of higher spec than the standard models to date. They will however be the usual parts-bin specials and bear no resemblance to what many would consider an R model. Like the 848 before it an homologation bike has no need to exist.
If Ducati wanted to sell R models to the public based on perceived demand then there would be 10000 a year made as opposed to the absolute minimum required.
If you need a race-spec 899 then buy an S and have it built by the many capable specialists out there. A Ducati R is not like a trophy wife you just pick up and show off.
For all of the above reasons you won't see a 1299R either. You will see smaller displacement bikes and you will see Ducati to continue their usual roadmap in sport bike development although it's now a little different given that the 899 was a year later than that previous roadmap would have suggested.
That's first-hand company knowledge. Not guesswork and self-aggrandizing bullshit.
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6,800 Posts
Just back from a break in a lovely valley in The Blue Mountains, and what do I find?
More Ducati wisdom and experience.
Haven't missed this offensive shit really..
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Pat1098 are those the Blue mtns. in Washington?
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