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Discussion Starter #1
I'm not sure if it's these greasy california roads or not but I fish tailed the hell out of a stop yesterday due to a stupid driver. I ended up bouncing off my right knee on the side of a car(not a scratch on the bike) and was able to kick out and give the guy a good shot in the paint with my boot. My question is that the back tire on my S locks up very easily causing me to slide quite a bit during quick stops. I don't have lots of years of riding experience and could use some advice. Do you guys lay off the rear brake and just grab the front in a panic move? Its hard for me to apply light pressure to the back in a survival reaction. My foot tends to just pin the rear brake. Feedback?
 

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its taken me some time to learn that the bake brake is not used for stopping so much as it is to keep your bike still once its already stopped. the front brakes on these bikes are usually more then enough to stop you in an emergency, but you also have to be quite careful, if you pin them... you're going over... my old zx6R I had I could use the back brakes almost evenly with the front, but not the same on this bike... teach yourself to keep your foot off the pedal, you'll be better off.
 

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When I took my class a few years ago one test was the panic stop...

Second gear... Med. revs... go straight till they blow the wistle...

AT THE SAME TIME... Grab the Clutch... Full Front Brake... Full Rear Brake... Down Shift to First!

Oh... and DONT go over the bars! One guy did and was booted from the class!
 

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well....dont bother about trying to use the rear. In a heavy breaking situation, the dynamic weight transfer is such that the rear tyre has fuck-all apparrent weight on it. It will lock up, chatter, or attempt to overtake the front. It's effectiveness for stopping is so close to nil, that it's not an issue.
That said, dont just grab the front and squeeze either. If you are progressive untill the fork load is in the high percentages, then you may.
 

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......... Do you guys lay off the rear brake and just grab the front in a panic move? Its hard for me to apply light pressure to the back in a survival reaction. My foot tends to just pin the rear brake. Feedback?
Survival instincts are very hard to retrain and only comes with purposeful practice. 80% of your stopping power comes from the front on sportsbikes and is the reason why they only put a relatively small disc on the back of these bikes. When you grab a big fist full of front brake the problem is magnified by weight transfer to the front and causes the rear to work better so to speak. Practice makes perfect I'm afraid. Glad to hear it ended relatively well. :)
 

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I also took a safety class for "experienced rider", it was just a marketing. Anyway, one of the exercises was emergency stop during a turn (slight lean), 2nd-3rd gear about 25 MPH.

Straighten the bike, front brake only, down shift to first, right foot should be ready to hold the bike up.

Back brake should not be used during emergencies. I can see how you could going straight, like the post above.

Just a little bit of my experience and opinion
 

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To be Honest I've gotten into the habit of stomping the rear brake when some moron cuts me off . I found out by accident one day on my supermoto that the rear brake is much more effective then using the horn . Some woman in a minivan pulled right out in front of me while she was talking on her cell phone a yelling at the two kids in the back seat. At that point I kind of paniced because I was going like 65 + or so and she was only like 60 feet away , I layed on the horn and the brakes . The rear tire made a very impressive howling , sliding tire sound " you know the one that a semi makes when it locks up the trailer tires " as the rear tire was slapping against the pavement . She then looked up an started to brake herself Not that it mattered at this point she was already blocking most of the road an I'm a only about 25 feet from her now . I let off my brakes and turned as hard as I could with my foot down . I missed the front of her van by no more then 10 inches . Of couse then she flipped me off because I made her soil her panties. I really don't understand why people think it's ever ok to run a stop sign. I'm sure that the noise the rear tire was making is what make her finally look ,then hit her brakes . If she would have kept coming I would have hit her in the door.
 

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Some-one should make this thread a sticky..

This would have to be the FIRST time I've seen anyone suggest the back brake on their Ducati actually does MORE than enough..

Here is a quick thought..

Bend down to the caliper, crack the bleeder screw out a tad, wait 5 seconds and screw it back in again.

that should put enough air into the rear brake to make it a little spongey...


well it is just the opposite to everyone saying to bleed it for them not working.
 

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You need to practice your stops allot to get out of this natural habit, start slowly leading up to harder braking. I say screw the downshifting, pull in the clutch and brake with the front only at the same time and look where you want to go, not where your heading. If your heading in the wrong direction, release brake and turn. Riding on the track really helps with this cause its safer. You blow a turn, you can ride it out until you learn to force yourself to look where you want to go and the panic stuff dissappears until you go even faster! LOL I think Kevin Schwantz was the guy that said he'd used the rear brake twice and crashed both times. LOL Something like that.

When I come to an intersection on a highway and a car is on my right side I move to the left and vica versa, that helps them to see you and if they do pull out your already heading away from them to avoid them. I also cover the front brake at all times with a finger and 2 at intersections. Trackdays are an awesome learning experience.
 

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In my experience I find using the rear brake for emergency in the city or upto 50 km p/h speeds safer than front... Now slow speed emergency mostly mean that the "object" causing the emergency is very close, so generally not enough time to use the front brake properly, i.e. appliying it gradually. I found out twice that I intend to pull it all at once and kissed the ground on both occasions (was still better off than kissing the alternatives). So after that I started to keep my foot in position for emergency rear brake, i.e. on the lever, and if I use it I just apply full pressure, sometimes locking the rear but upto 50 km the rear does not slide that much... That takes the reflex of sudden full front brake out of equasion and I find it safer.
 

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I never use the rear brake.
 

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I say screw the downshifting, pull in the clutch and brake with the front only...

Ok, so what happens when you make that panic stop and successfully avoid the car that pulled out from you but the guy behind you isn't quite as fast at stopping? Now you are at a dead stop in lets say 4th gear because you didn't downshift. You are proper screwed.
 

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Ok, so what happens when you make that panic stop and successfully avoid the car that pulled out from you but the guy behind you isn't quite as fast at stopping? Now you are at a dead stop in lets say 4th gear because you didn't downshift. You are proper screwed.

Not sure, but I think he meant do this in practice situations.

I cleaned the hell out of my discs a couple days ago...and since then I've been locking up the rear all over the place. WTF? This has never been a problem before. I don't think I'm anything differently with braking, but it has scared me enough to lay off the rear.
 

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Not sure, but I think he meant do this in practice situations.
I understand that, but you are going to do in an emergency what you have been practicing. It is muscle memory. If you don't practice downshifting to 1st gear when you panic stop, you won't do it when you have to for real. Then you will be in trouble because you are at a stand still and possibly in a gear too high to accelerate if you need to get out of the way in a hurry. See how that could suck?
 

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I've been riding as well as racing for years and the only times I use my rear brake *only* is when braking at SLOW speed on gravel (or cobblestones, sand, etc.) and on a wet & oily spot on the road coming up to a stop sign/light when my tires are cold. I have always by habit used both brakes together in hard braking situations, but as to how effective the rear really is I couldn't tell you. But what I can tell you is that once coming into a corner fast during a race my fronts failed on my rice burner and I flat-spotted my new rear slick with the rear brake in order to avoid crashing.
 

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Heavy breaking: Dont use the rear, it's troublesome and inefective, and will step the rear of the bike out if you are anything but strait-line. This is because the slower spinning wheel will scribe the longer radius of the turn. ( nice if you want to oversteer a turn on the track, but that takes more talent than I have )

Medium breaking: You could use the rear, I guess, but why bother? My excuse is lazyness, plus I would rather downshift and dont want both boots off the 'sweet-spot' of the Pegs at the same time.

Light breaking: Maybe, but probably couldnt be bothered

AT a stop, waiting : Sure, great idea...very effective, especially if there is a slight incline
 

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Discussion Starter #20
VFRMAN- I have taken an MSF course, my 1198S responds a little differently than the Suzuki 450 I rode in class. :) I have learned that a little rear brake in the corners while canyon riding makes a big difference. As for the speeds I have been mostly talking about 20mph to 30mph emergency maneuvers. Even at this speed it locks the rear wheel instantly. I always shift to first. Based on my msf course I pull all four, clutch, brake, shift, and rear. Thats what I was taught. On this bike that example is going to get me killed!
 
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