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Court Jester
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Not sure I follow...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sorry, and I know this will offend people, but it's my opinion that Ducati has been moving further and further away from the racing formula that built it's reputation with it's superbikes. Introducing an 899 that doesn't fit into an existing class, 2 years without a single WSBK win after back to back great seasons (Crushing everyone in 2011 for the Championship, coming in 4th with weight penalties AND restrictions in 2012), then they come out with this that doesn't fit into any existing racing class (unless they're gonna race a 1300 against 1000's, which is getting kind of embarrassing).

In the last WSBK race to have an 1198 in it (last year), a privateer who hadn't raced in a year entered one race on an 1198 and beat both factory supported Panigales (and rode a wheelie across the finish line) on a bike that hadn't been developed in quite a long time.

Just seems like they're selling ego bikes for street poseurs now on a reputation built on the backs of brilliant engineers and great racers.

Sorry. Just bums me right out.
 

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Court Jester
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You don't have to apologize for your opinion.

However I would only add in my opinion they have to "Sell" bikes there are many ways of doing this racing being a part of that, additionally they did start off the live broadcast with saying racing is in there blood and here to stay.
 

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The WSBK bike will still be the 1199 R. The street versions are the only engines with the 1299 or 1258cc.
The only thing that surprised me is the R is now offered in dual seats instead of just single like the 1x98R series.
If I had the budget, I would get one in a heart beat, plus the SL's mag wheels. Those damn things are $8k retail -.- rediculous
 

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When Federico Minoli ran Ducati, they were all about racing. He himself was an avid motorcycle rider and loved Italian bikes. However, the risks Ducati took with new bikes like the Hypermotard, Multistrada and 749/999, nearly bankrupted the company. Minoli's philosophy would lead the board of directors to give him the boot and in his place they put Gabriele del Torchio a non-riding, millionaire business man who came in to "fix" the company. They immediately scrapped the updated 749/999 and made the 1098, brining Ducati back into perceived "beauty". He then put in place a multi-year plan which made Ducati a fashion company. Ducati spent almost a billion dollars re-branding and developing new bikes during that time, again putting them into a poor financial situation.

With the new fuel efficiency ratings for cars in the EU/US, car manufacturers have been looking to add efficient vehicles to their fleets. The Volkswagon group pieced together a deal to bring Ducati out of their poor financial situation by investing a billion dollars, but also put Ducati under the Lamborghini umbrella so the fuel efficiency shared by the motorcycles will trickle down into the car's. It's a very clever loophole in the current emissions laws, which will be stitched up very soon. De Torchio was shown the door and former Ducati corse director Claudio Domenicali, rider, ex-racer and all-around loved Ducatisti, became the CEO. The problem is, the damage has already been done. With Volkswagon group holding the reigns, Claudio is going through the movements with hope the net result will bring them success.

Ducati today is a multi-national motorcycle fashion company, with manufacturing plants in Brazil and Thailand. With the addition of the scrambler brand, Ducati will start producing more lower-end motorcycles for the fashion conscious. It's not about performance, it's about the "Essence of art" the "Shape and Function" the "Limited Edition".

There are two types of people in the world… Consumers and Builders.

Ducati use to be a motorcycle company, making bikes for builders. They weren't the best bike's in the world, but the owners would custom build them into something that would be brilliant and fit their needs perfectly. Ducati of the past understood what basic framework they needed to use in order to make the machines easier to customize.

Today, Ducati is a fashion company, building motorcycles, clothing and accessories which aren't for performance but are specifically for making a fashion statement. The whole idea of building a base framework for modifying has gone out the window. The new bikes are tighter then a drum and far more difficult to maintain then their predecessors. Plus, Ducati has turned into an electronics company; "now you can sync your iPhone onto the dashboard of your motorcycle, isn't that just great"?

The unfortunate part is that Ducati is doing exactly what they need to do. In my opinion, none of this is wrong or unexpected, it's just disappointing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
You guys are right about a lot of things (maybe everything) I was just born in the wrong time period.

I would probably ride a steam powered motorcycle and hate the new fangled "internal combustion" jobs if I was born 100 years ago.

I just meant I'm sorry to anyone whose feelings really are hurt by criticism of their present or future "baby".

I don't take criticism of my toys of choice very well, even though I know it's just somebody else's opinion.

Glad to hear the "R" is staying at 1199. I'd like to see a few wins that mean something (without starting a "but they're already a 1200" debate).
 

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I would probably ride a steam powered motorcycle and hate the new fangled "internal combustion" jobs if I was born 100 years ago.
Me too and honestly, it's what made Ducati in the past so great. They made real mechanical beasts, like Porsche and Ferrari. Today nobody makes anything like that anymore and it's very sad.

I'm probably the happiest on the footplate of a steam engine anyway. ;)
 

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Court Jester
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You guys are right about a lot of things (maybe everything) I was just born in the wrong time period.

I would probably ride a steam powered motorcycle and hate the new fangled "internal combustion" jobs if I was born 100 years ago.

I just meant I'm sorry to anyone whose feelings really are hurt by criticism of their present or future "baby".

I don't take criticism of my toys of choice very well, even though I know it's just somebody else's opinion.

Glad to hear the "R" is staying at 1199. I'd like to see a few wins that mean something (without starting a "but they're already a 1200" debate).
It's all good, in 100 years we will have to probably deal with DC motors in our bikes :(
 

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It's all good, in 100 years we will have to probably deal with DC motors in our bikes :(
They'll be pulling internal combustion engines away from my cold dead body. LOL :)
 

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Court Jester
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They'll be pulling internal combustion engines away from my cold dead body. LOL :)
What are you going to run it on lighter fluid?
 
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What are you going to run it on lighter fluid?
If you wanna turn this conversation into a discussion on economics, that's kool, but don't blame me in 20 pages when it goes to shit. ;)

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind, gasoline as we know it will be around for much longer then previously predicted, for many reasons. The biggest reason relates to the car manufactures unwilling to produce vehicles which don't require service. If your entire fleet was electric, they might as well close down because servicing internal combustion engines is what keeps dealerships alive. The other reason is the move to hybrid and electric vehicles has hit the gas pumps hard. The solution is lowering gas prices substantially, we're expecting a 10 year low by the end of this year. This gives incentives for car manufactures to continue building more efficient gas burning vehicles because gas prices are lower then they've been in quite sometime.

Personally, I don't see this trend changing anytime soon. We're reliant on fossil fuels because if we stopped being reliant on them, we'd be putting millions of people out of work and they generally have nowhere else to go. Yes, over the next 50 years, things will slowly change as those people die or retire, with their jobs not being replaced. The coal and oil industry will slowly shrink over that time period to the point of refineries being shut down and coal mines closing. With that said, electric generation will need alternative fueling methods which currently don't exist.

The introduction of quick charging electric vehicles in the next 2 - 5 years, will be the beginning of the end for petrol powered vehicles. Initially it will be a gradual roll-out and the option to buy most cars in electric or gasoline powered. The gasoline powered vehicles will be the cheaper one's and continue to sell for a good solid 20 years as gas prices decrease. Eventually recharging stations will cost money and petrol stations who wish to stay in business will be high-powered energy centers. Within 50 years, we'll see energy efficiency increase and storage solutions which we currently can't even dream of. These mixed with some mandates from the government will most likely put an end to the production of new petrol vehicles and the ones currently on the street will retain "antique" status in order to keep running legally. Petrol stations in 50 years will be rare and gas will be expensive, but it will still be around.

Petrol heads have nothing to worry about. 50 years from now most of us will be too old to be galavanting around on then 70 year old motorcycles anyway! LOL :)
 

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Court Jester
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If you wanna turn this conversation into a discussion on economics, that's kool, but don't blame me in 20 pages when it goes to shit. ;)

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind, gasoline as we know it will be around for much longer then previously predicted, for many reasons. The biggest reason relates to the car manufactures unwilling to produce vehicles which don't require service. If your entire fleet was electric, they might as well close down because servicing internal combustion engines is what keeps dealerships alive. The other reason is the move to hybrid and electric vehicles has hit the gas pumps hard. The solution is lowering gas prices substantially, we're expecting a 10 year low by the end of this year. This gives incentives for car manufactures to continue building more efficient gas burning vehicles because gas prices are lower then they've been in quite sometime.

Personally, I don't see this trend changing anytime soon. We're reliant on fossil fuels because if we stopped being reliant on them, we'd be putting millions of people out of work and they generally have nowhere else to go. Yes, over the next 50 years, things will slowly change as those people die or retire, with their jobs not being replaced. The coal and oil industry will slowly shrink over that time period to the point of refineries being shut down and coal mines closing. With that said, electric generation will need alternative fueling methods which currently don't exist.

The introduction of quick charging electric vehicles in the next 2 - 5 years, will be the beginning of the end for petrol powered vehicles. Initially it will be a gradual roll-out and the option to buy most cars in electric or gasoline powered. The gasoline powered vehicles will be the cheaper one's and continue to sell for a good solid 20 years as gas prices decrease. Eventually recharging stations will cost money and petrol stations who wish to stay in business will be high-powered energy centers. Within 50 years, we'll see energy efficiency increase and storage solutions which we currently can't even dream of. These mixed with some mandates from the government will most likely put an end to the production of new petrol vehicles and the ones currently on the street will retain "antique" status in order to keep running legally. Petrol stations in 50 years will be rare and gas will be expensive, but it will still be around.

Petrol heads have nothing to worry about. 50 years from now most of us will be too old to be galavanting around on then 70 year old motorcycles anyway! LOL :)
http://www.ducati.org/forums/kitchen-sink/61147-come.html#post779504
 

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Red, you're not the only one who feels that way...The 899 just doesn't belong anywhere even though it's a great bike, and now the 1299 is the joke of the sport bike community (outside of Ducati fans/owners). Once again, it'll be a phenomenal bike, but a GSXR would be a phenomenal bike too if they added a few hundred extra cc's, put more electronic gizmos on it and charged an extra $10k for it. I just don't understand the reasoning for it. Clearly it's not racing since it'll be illegal, so then what is it? For sales you say? Why though? Why did they think adding an extra 100 cc's would increase the sales? Did they really feel threatened by Yamaha, Kawasaki, Aprilia, and others and thought the 1199 wouldn't cut it anymore? If that's the case, then make a better 1199, don't be lazy and simply increase the displacement! I just feel like that's a "*******" solution rather than an "engineering" solution.

I wasn't into bikes back in '07 but I can only imagine it was the same deal then..."oh look Ducati is adding an extra 100cc, and 200cc to their R version so they can keep up". Maybe I'm wrong about that, i don't know.
 
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I think many in this thread are acting under a delusion that there is some kind of rulebook for motorcycle manufacture. There isn't. Racing does not determine road bikes. Road bikes are later raced. Was always thus.
Thank you. I don't see how people don't understand this. If they were dedicated to a race bike then they would have always come off the factory floor with no seat, lights, etc etc...and they have not done that with any of the street models
 

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I think many in this thread are acting under a delusion that there is some kind of rulebook for motorcycle manufacture. There isn't. Racing does not determine road bikes. Road bikes are later raced. Was always thus.
Yes, this is true. But there is a good reason why manufacturers haven't made random displacement bikes in the last few decades. Honda only made 600 and 1000. Suzuki 600, 750, 1000. Kawasaki and Yamaha did the same as Honda. Aprilia made a 1000, and so on. I know manufacturers can make whatever displacements they want, but they don't. You just don't see that with anyone else...so why is that?

Personally, this is one of the many things I like about sport bikes and manufacturers that make them as oppose to cars. Bikes have set classes, supersports (600s), superbikes (1000-1200), and middleweights (somewhere in between, within reason). It's nice to have this because you can compare apples to apples, whereas in the sports car world, there are so many iterations of engine displacements and configurations that it's almost impossible to compare them. But that's just my feelings on the matter...I'm not saying there is a right and a wrong.
 

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I haven't thought about as douchy (sp?) just as rather strange...
The 899 is meant to...?
Manufacturers do build to suit an audience, but cmon, can anyone legally use a modern sportbike to its capability? Heck, my 1198 only STARTS to feel alive over 200kph, below 50 it's a struggle to ride. As a styling excersize, I get. Much like Honda did with the NR750; design the unobtanium and sell a numbered few to collectors. Will these new designs push the racing governing bodies to open new classes? (That's where the ducati shines!)
 
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