Any Thoughts On The Electronic Shifter?
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See, that's the question.
I've never used one, but a couple of friends have them on their Gixxer 1Ls. Of course these are guys that buy every new toy that comes out, whether they use it or not.
I guess it saves the hassle of using the clutch? But I clutchless upshift on the track anyway. And you have to use the clutch to match blips on downshifting. Right?
Oh, and I got the price off of Advanced Motorsports page.
I've never used one, but a couple of friends have them on their Gixxer 1Ls. Of course these are guys that buy every new toy that comes out, whether they use it or not.
I guess it saves the hassle of using the clutch? But I clutchless upshift on the track anyway. And you have to use the clutch to match blips on downshifting. Right?
Oh, and I got the price off of Advanced Motorsports page.
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Anybody have any feedback with this system yet?
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I would not bother... I have one on my track 600RR and it took me a few years to put one on.. I mean if you plan to push your bike 100% then you can see the benefit of it..It is truly designed for race purpose like coming off corners etc. But I would suggest to invest in a slipper clutch.
I have a DynoJet QuickShifter. It's great if you're racing but I haven't used it much on the street nor the track. If you clutchless upshift anyway you can get a double-kill on the engine if you forget the QS is there. No biggie, it's just an upset to your speed and concentration.
What's great about the QS is that you can select the kill time and RPM threshold. (minimum RPM for it to work) So you could say 9K and clutchless upshift on most street runs all you want. You can set it down low and use it all the time. You can also do what I did and disconnect it until your next track day to see if you even want to use it.
Oh and to answer one of the questions out there, you can downshift without the clutch. It's just not as simple to rev-match and it's easier to upset the bike especially without a slipper clutch to back you up. I do it on the street here and there and practiced a bit on my last track day...not sure if I like it or what. Picture a double throttle blip with a shift in the middle of the two, that's your clutchless downshift.
What's great about the QS is that you can select the kill time and RPM threshold. (minimum RPM for it to work) So you could say 9K and clutchless upshift on most street runs all you want. You can set it down low and use it all the time. You can also do what I did and disconnect it until your next track day to see if you even want to use it.
Oh and to answer one of the questions out there, you can downshift without the clutch. It's just not as simple to rev-match and it's easier to upset the bike especially without a slipper clutch to back you up. I do it on the street here and there and practiced a bit on my last track day...not sure if I like it or what. Picture a double throttle blip with a shift in the middle of the two, that's your clutchless downshift.
DUCMILLE said:
My tech wouldn't steer me wrong...by any and all accounts clutchless shifting is fine for the bike. Obviously it needs to be done right but IMO can't be done any other way because I have hit the gear without enough kill and it wouldn't switch. The worst I've done is shift into N by not applying enough pressure, which can happen between 1st/2nd and 5th/6th anyway...
This can be done on manual auto trannies too, I've seen it. It's just not as easy...
This can be done on manual auto trannies too, I've seen it. It's just not as easy...
cloudrider said:
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So is it bad for your bike?
Can you clutchless shift without it by just backing out of the throttle for a sec? Is that bad for the bike?
Can you clutchless shift without it by just backing out of the throttle for a sec? Is that bad for the bike?
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Sure you can shift it by backing off. You can probably also shift it by stomping like hell on the shifter. But why? You can get good enough with the clutch and throttle that it only takes a split second to shift. Whatsa' matter with using the clutch anyway? Too heavy a pull?
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It depends
Shifting without the clutch is fine if you get it right, and bad if you get it wrong. When you get it right you'll know 'cause the transmission will effortlessly shift into the next gear. And when you get it wrong you'll know 'cause your transmission will make a horrible noise that sounds as if your transmission is being destroyed. 'Cause it is.
Unless you're racing, there's no good reason to shift without the clutch.
Elton
fairplayinc,fairplayinc said:
Shifting without the clutch is fine if you get it right, and bad if you get it wrong. When you get it right you'll know 'cause the transmission will effortlessly shift into the next gear. And when you get it wrong you'll know 'cause your transmission will make a horrible noise that sounds as if your transmission is being destroyed. 'Cause it is.
Unless you're racing, there's no good reason to shift without the clutch.
Elton
Yeah but it's more like a split-second...one operation for both engine kill and shift. Not bad for the bike, otherwise my tech wouldn't ride my bike clutchless for a test ride and he would have recommended against the QS. It's a very common thing, just assumed and not discussed by most if you haven't heard about it I guess.
As for why, that's up to the person. It's easier and quicker, especially if you're in a rush, or racing. I just love how quick the shift is, you will barely hear it when it's done quickly
And I'm lucky that it's not easy to do otherwise...I have felt when the RPM has been too low and/or I haven't killed the engine enough and got the Heisman on the shift. That's the important part, it DIDN'T shift without an opportunity to. I've grinded gears with a bad clutch basket but never without the clutch...try it and you'll see. Maybe have someone show you visually first.
As for why, that's up to the person. It's easier and quicker, especially if you're in a rush, or racing.
I just love how quick the shift is, you will barely hear it when it's done quicklyAnd I'm lucky that it's not easy to do otherwise...I have felt when the RPM has been too low and/or I haven't killed the engine enough and got the Heisman on the shift. That's the important part, it DIDN'T shift without an opportunity to. I've grinded gears with a bad clutch basket but never without the clutch...try it and you'll see. Maybe have someone show you visually first.
fairplayinc said:
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So let me get this straight...
When I launch and wrap to the redline, if I back off for a split-sec and shift (which goes in effortlessly, no clanking or anything), and do the same thing in second gear, then third gear, am I damaging anything?
Its a matter of being able to hold on to both grips fully. Call me a pu$$y, call me inexperienced, I like to go fast (as safe as possible) and feel better with both hands firmly on the grips.
When I launch and wrap to the redline, if I back off for a split-sec and shift (which goes in effortlessly, no clanking or anything), and do the same thing in second gear, then third gear, am I damaging anything?
Its a matter of being able to hold on to both grips fully. Call me a pu$$y, call me inexperienced, I like to go fast (as safe as possible) and feel better with both hands firmly on the grips.
You use the clutch in 1st...from 1st to 2nd and onward you do what you described. You can slam the throttle shut for that split-second but as you develop the skill (which I still am) you learn that it only takes a bit.
However, very important...or maybe it was just for me because I was new. My mind assimilated the easing off the throttle with the shift and sometimes I was not deliberate enough with the shift. Make sure, just like in any other shift, that you are deliberate. But like I said the worst thing that has happend to me is I have caught N and then just pulled in the clutch and upshifted without issue.
Then you can try the downshift...
P.S. That's part of the reason I learned it...I was scared to take my fingers off the handlebar when taching to 9K+. Now I can clutchless shift and I've figured out which fingers to use and what it takes to get the shift. (I use my outside three for both levers, two inside fingers just isn't comfortable nor effective for me)
However, very important...or maybe it was just for me because I was new. My mind assimilated the easing off the throttle with the shift and sometimes I was not deliberate enough with the shift. Make sure, just like in any other shift, that you are deliberate. But like I said the worst thing that has happend to me is I have caught N and then just pulled in the clutch and upshifted without issue.
Then you can try the downshift...
P.S. That's part of the reason I learned it...I was scared to take my fingers off the handlebar when taching to 9K+. Now I can clutchless shift and I've figured out which fingers to use and what it takes to get the shift. (I use my outside three for both levers, two inside fingers just isn't comfortable nor effective for me)
fairplayinc said:
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2,751 Posts
no noise is good noise
If the bike changes gears effortlessly during the clutchless shift, then you're not damaging anything. It's when you hear the sickening noise of your transmission grinding and shredding that you're doing damage. You'll know it when your damaging something. It will be obvious.
There's no good reason to shift without the clutch unless you're racing.
Elton
fairplayinc,fairplayinc said:
If the bike changes gears effortlessly during the clutchless shift, then you're not damaging anything. It's when you hear the sickening noise of your transmission grinding and shredding that you're doing damage. You'll know it when your damaging something. It will be obvious.
There's no good reason to shift without the clutch unless you're racing.
Elton
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182 Posts
I understand that and I dont "race" the bike through the gears very often. Thanks for all the input guys. Its all valued highly.mrinflux said:
I do it when I'm chillin too, unless I'm creeping or at very low RPMs...like I said it's preference and convenience. I can upshift or downshift with only my right hand on the throttle...not like that's recommended! :naughty:
You could always try it and see if you like it. Anyone I have met who actually knows about it and tried it, doesn't use the clutch that much if at all on upshifts any more.
It's up to you but it's a no-brainer so don't be overly concerned about it. If you like it do it, if you don't then you don't have to either.
Peace
You could always try it and see if you like it. Anyone I have met who actually knows about it and tried it, doesn't use the clutch that much if at all on upshifts any more.
It's up to you but it's a no-brainer so don't be overly concerned about it. If you like it do it, if you don't then you don't have to either.
Peace
fairplayinc said:
I agree with Mr Influx on this one, sorry NewDuc, but i agree that it is all down to preference.
I can say this because I was curious like most of us out there and had to try for myself. I do it sometimes and it is quite smooth on the upshifts but i can't get my head around the downshifts and have made one too many 'not so snicky' noises with the box and gave up the downshifting as somekind of 'blackmagic'.
To persist with this and have the most success you really have to understand the mechanics of the entire drivetrain.
The clutch is there as a 'mediator' between gearbox and rear wheel and at times separates two whirring masses of 'nashing teeth' that are potentially rotating at hugely different rpms. Trying to mesh one gear doing 2000 rpm with another doing 5000 rpm is gonna end in tears with out the help of the clutch.
On the upshift - smooth and deliberate is the way to go.
Mechanics 101 states - 60mph = 5000rpm = 4800rpm gear + 1.
No shutting off the throttle (not necessary) all your trying to do is (using above example) is dropping that 200rpm off (or whatever it is) ready for the taller gear.
This all happens in a slpit second and the harder your giving it to her the faster you have to be to get it right. Basically by dropping off the extra rpm you are actually 'unloading' the forces on the gearbox so the change can happen. Try this in a slow revving car - load up the gearbox by accelerating and then gentle push/pull the stick towards neutral. You'll find that it may not move under load, if so back off on the gas slowly, aiming for zero acceleration (constant speed) and as you keep pressure on the stick it will 'fall' into neutral as the load comes off the box.
The reverse of this (downshifting) is much harder to master (I can't which is why i have given up). You have to momentarily raise the rpm to release the gearbox load ( same speed = higher rpm in a lower gear). WTF - raising rpm while trying to slow down??!!! Yeah - I can't get it. Maybe easier with a slipper ?
I can say this because I was curious like most of us out there and had to try for myself. I do it sometimes and it is quite smooth on the upshifts but i can't get my head around the downshifts and have made one too many 'not so snicky' noises with the box and gave up the downshifting as somekind of 'blackmagic'.
To persist with this and have the most success you really have to understand the mechanics of the entire drivetrain.
The clutch is there as a 'mediator' between gearbox and rear wheel and at times separates two whirring masses of 'nashing teeth' that are potentially rotating at hugely different rpms. Trying to mesh one gear doing 2000 rpm with another doing 5000 rpm is gonna end in tears with out the help of the clutch.
On the upshift - smooth and deliberate is the way to go.
Mechanics 101 states - 60mph = 5000rpm = 4800rpm gear + 1.
No shutting off the throttle (not necessary) all your trying to do is (using above example) is dropping that 200rpm off (or whatever it is) ready for the taller gear.
This all happens in a slpit second and the harder your giving it to her the faster you have to be to get it right. Basically by dropping off the extra rpm you are actually 'unloading' the forces on the gearbox so the change can happen. Try this in a slow revving car - load up the gearbox by accelerating and then gentle push/pull the stick towards neutral. You'll find that it may not move under load, if so back off on the gas slowly, aiming for zero acceleration (constant speed) and as you keep pressure on the stick it will 'fall' into neutral as the load comes off the box.
The reverse of this (downshifting) is much harder to master (I can't which is why i have given up). You have to momentarily raise the rpm to release the gearbox load ( same speed = higher rpm in a lower gear). WTF - raising rpm while trying to slow down??!!! Yeah - I can't get it. Maybe easier with a slipper ?
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