[Tchase]

Again, no lies… Shazaam spent the time that I was going to take to show you what the manual actually looks like. He's accurate in his depiction of the data as well. Mobile has no reason to submit their "car oil" for testing, they can make more money selling their "motorcycle" oil, even if its the same stuff.

For me, I'd rather put oil in my bike with the proper rating on the back of the jug. Thats the ONLY THING I was trying to get across and instead, we've had this back and forward which has yet again, resulted in YOU being wrong.

So post after post you are agreeing Mobil 1 is fine?
My manual says what I posted no wrong in that. What does your manual say?

 

[noahp]

i dont see api or jaso in the pdf version of the 2012 848 evo corse manual and everything i've read so far essential says stick to the api and jaso rations of the owners manual. Does anyone have the shop manual? I'd really like to know if they get more specific in it than the sae rating

 

[Shazaam!]

Does anyone have the shop manual? I'd really like to know if they get more specific in it than the sae rating

From the 2008 848 Shop Manual:

 

[noahp]

From the 2008 848 Shop Manual:

Right on man! Much appreciated.

Good lord they signed a blood pact with Shell huh. Also be hard pressed tp find 95 octane here in Tampa. Highest i've seen is 92.

 

[pinoytuffguy]

oh wow... 95. Geez... Orlando also has 92. oh well, I can find 95, but have to go pretty far to get it. 92 is good enough ya?

 

[noahp]

looks like api se, sf and sg are obsolete. so it is up to us to choose i guess.

 

[Shazaam!]

Also be hard pressed tp find 95 octane here in Tampa. Highest i've seen is 92.

The minimum octane requirement for each engine model is specified in the Owners Manual and Shop Manual using the RON measurement system that is used in Europe and many other parts of the world. The US and Canada fuel pumps list octane in a different measurement system so you need to convert the numbers as follows:

91–92 RON = 86–87 US Regular
94–95 RON = 89–90 US Plus
95–99 RON = 90–94 US Premium

 

[noahp]

The minimum octane requirement for each engine model is specified in the Owners Manual and Shop Manual using the RON measurement system that is used in Europe and many other parts of the world. The US and Canada fuel pumps list octane in a different measurement system so you need to convert the numbers as follows:

91–92 RON = 86–87 US Regular
94–95 RON = 89–90 US Plus
95–99 RON = 90–94 US Premium

thanks for that. I forgot about the RON rating system.

 

[tye1138]

So post after post you are agreeing Mobil 1 is fine?
My manual says what I posted no wrong in that. What does your manual say?

Mobile 1 car oil doesn't have the certification for wet clutches on the back. So no in a wet clutch bike I would use something else. That was my point 20 posts ago. It's unfortunate you feel like following the current trend and disbelieve everything I say, which shazaam pretty much confirmed.

 

[noahp]

the most informative info comes from shells pages for Adv ultra

Shell Advance Ultra provides Shell’s ultimate protection and performance for all modern motorbikes, whatever their engine size. It delivers excellent control with smooth gear changes, and a more enjoyable ride thanks to reduced noise and vibration. Its fully synthetic technology helps to prolong the life of your engine.


Key features of Shell Advance Ultra

Fully synthetic technology – for Shell’s ultimate protection and oil-performance reliability.
Excellent shear stability – to dampen vibration and reduce noise.
Optimised friction control – for smoother clutch engagement and gear changes.
Shell's ultimate lubrication performance – for proven protection against valve train wear.
Shell Advance's R.C.E* Technology – helps your bike perform to its peak potential and respond to your slightest touch.
Removal of sludge and engine deposits.

*RCE = Reliability of oil-performance, Control, Enjoyable ride.

Available in viscosity grades: SAE J 300 10W-40 and 15W-50. Both formulations meet: API SM and JASO MA2.


I may be wrong but the api sm oils use the energy saver additives which have been framed for clutch slippage or am I mis reading this?

 

[noahp]

check out the comparo tool.

Oil Spec Finder and Comparison Tool - oilspecifications.org

 

[Shazaam!]

I think it's fair to say that this forum dispute has resulted mainly because — unlike it's parent company Audi — Ducati hasn't published a list of approved motor oils. Presumably such a list would make a distinction between wet and dry clutch models.

To confuse things, the wet clutch 848 Owners Manual specifies the use of only one approved product by Shell, and the 848 Shop Manual simply specifies any motor oil that meets the now-obsolete ATI SG classification.

 

[Tchase]

Car oil like Mobile 1, doesn't have the anti foaming and clutch additives necessary to work in a motorcycle with shared crankcase.

That statement has already been proven wrong and I'm not going to go find the thread, why do you push this?

TYE I called you out on this post this is exactly what I'm talking about Shazam posts say it will not harm cluthes!

 

[tye1138]

TYE I called you out on this post this is exactly what I'm talking about Shazam posts say it will not harm cluthes!

I could give two shits if he uses milk in his crankcases.

Shazaam is a professional Ducati expert with decades of experience, but I doubt he will be eager to replace your clutch plates when they prematurely fail. He could be 100% right, but its not worth the risk.

The right answer is all I care about. If you own a Ducati with a wet clutch, you need to use a motorcycle oil with the proper certification.

 

[pat1098]

So again Tye you over-react with nastiness when confronted with an expert. (I mean, a real expert). You are gradually, inexorably, 'painting yourself into a corner'. A process any number of us can't wait to reach its inevitable conclusion..

But back at the oil question. Some of the confusion with oils can be clarified when it is factored in that Ducati - like many manufacturers - have done a deal with suppliers.

In the case of Ducati, with some links to Ferrari, they swapped from Agip to Shell some years ago. When the F1 cars did a similar thing.

So there is a fair bit of 'smoke and mirrors' in this discussion. And probably an intent on the part of oil companies to keep us in blissful ignorance..

I can say that I have run the Motul 5100 15/40 since Day One, and that my engine was in excellent condition when I pulled it down at 76,000 kms.

But the issue with the wet clutch models is something else again. With these I tend to use a motorcycle-specific oil, which should be designed to cope with the needs of a bath clutch.

But it is pretty well impossible to find an oil that is ideal for the needs of the engine, and the very different needs of the gearbox, plus cope with the function of a wet clutch. This is a compromise at best.

The older motorcyclists will remember the days when we had three separate oils to change on our bikes. Plus the dry-sump British bikes had to be drained from both the sump and the oil tank, Aprilia-style.

But we liked a challenge back then..

 

[noahp]

of the several articles I read the chief friction modifier that was seen as a possible wet clutch issue was MoS2, Moly. In the lab test of the few motorcycle centric oils they still found trace amounts of MoS2. IIRC the lowest might have been 5 PPM which isn't a lot but it isn't 0 so there still is a compromise being made in motorcycle oils for wet clutches.

This might be an area where clearer labeling is needed such as nutritional values on food.

 

[gunther19820]

I'm a Motul300V guy...

and it smells fantastic.

 

[Cianciotta]

But the issue with the wet clutch models is something else again. With these I tend to use a motorcycle-specific oil...

Look I'm not here to take sides or point fingers, but isn't the quote above pretty similar to what Tye said?

In my manual and obviously the one Tchase posted it states "Important - Do not use additives in fuel or lubricants." It doesn't matter who adds the additives (think friction modifiers - added by the manufacturers) Ducati is saying not to use them.


When speaking about being "confronted with an expert" when a link to Mobil 1s "Difference Between Car and Motorcycle Oils" link. Tchase blew it off as "Marketing hype." While it is often difficult to agree in this forum, I am sure we would all consider Mobil 1 engineers as oil experts.

Can't we all just get along?

 

[Tchase]

Look I'm not here to take sides or point fingers, but isn't the quote above pretty similar to what Tye said?

In my manual and obviously the one Tchase posted it states "Important - Do not use additives in fuel or lubricants." It doesn't matter who adds the additives (think friction modifiers - added by the manufacturers) Ducati is saying not to use them.


When speaking about being "confronted with an expert" when a link to Mobil 1s "Difference Between Car and Motorcycle Oils" link. Tchase blew it off as "Marketing hype." While it is often difficult to agree in this forum, I am sure we would all consider Mobil 1 engineers as oil experts.

Can't we all just get along?

Yes, but it wouldn't matter what forum or participants oil is always a hot topic.

We have lots of proof (actual people using it with NO issues) using mobil 1 is fine, Shazam has his well documented. We have zero proof its caused a problem (but lots of marketing hype) in regards to my blowing it off, that's where I'm at.

I would also add the last time I looked at a motul bottle I couldn't find any specifications (other than 15-50 on it. I'm going to look again when I get home.

I can tell you also the "engineers" don't always get to SPIN the marketing I have working knowledge of this.

 

[noahp]

SHELL ADVANCE 4T ULTRA 10W40
API SM, JASO MA-2

SM Introduced on 30 November 2004 Category SM oils are designed to provide improved oxidation resistance, improved deposit protection, better wear protection, and better low-temperature performance over the life of the oil. Some SM oils may also meet the latest ILSAC specification and/or qualify as Energy Conserving. They may be used where API Service Category SJ and SL earlier categories are recommended.

4T Specifications
Modern passenger car engine oils contain more and more friction modifiers. While this is the good thing for those segments (reduces wear and fuel consumption) it's bad for the motorcycles. At least for those motorcycles which use engine oil to lubricate their transmission and wet clutch. JASO introduced the MA and MB specification to distinguish between friction modified and non friction modified engine oils. Most four-stroke motorcycles with wet clutches need a JASO MA oil.

JASO MA
Japanese standard for special oil which can be used in 4-stroke motorcycle engine with one oil system for engine, gearbox and wet clutch system. Fluid is non-friction modified.

I am sure auto oils without the friction modifiers are out there but digging in to what each oil manufactures includes in their product is like pullings hens teeth. So by way of poor labeling what the industry has done is that they have created another specialty oil market but it seems there is a just reason behind this.

One of the components that ate up automotive catalytic converts is phosphorus as it turns out motorcycles rather need them due to their wear protection. The friction modifiers appear to be the other rubbing point, pardon the pun, as there hasn't been any empirical data to show that they will damage your clutch. That said even the motorcycle oils that claim to be wet clutch friendly still have 5 Parts Per Million on the low side and 100 PPM on the avg to high side.

Maybe the data needed is in the MSDS's. I haven't dug in there to deeply yet but suspect it isn't because these formulas are much regarded as coca cola company formula for the original coke.

The site below makes a pretty good effort at laying all the certs out and even have a tool you can use to find an oil close to the Manuf Spec.

Oil Spec Finder and Comparison Tool - oilspecifications.org