Clutchless shifting question.

4980 Views 16 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Shrek, Aug 4, 2015

Owezone

Discussion Starter · Aug 3, 2015 (Edited)

As a first time Ducati owner I have a question about my 1098.

I have never used the clutch to shift on any of my bikes...just blip the throttle. I notice this bike will down shift with very little pressure on the shift lever without "blipping" the throttle, just have to be off the throttle. On other bikes I have always raised the RPM to downshift, Do I (a) a trans that a previous owner did some performance mods to?(b) have a trans on its way out? or (c) a perfectly normal functioning piece of Italian race bred craftsmanship?

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

randomtask

· #2 · Aug 3, 2015

D) you are shortening the service life of your tranny

Either use the clutch or get a quick shifter w/auto blooper if you're too lazy.

Yes you can change gears without using the clutch. Doesn't necessarily mean the tranny is on its way out. BUT IT WILL BE. Your first Duc is a 1098? So I'm guessing it's used. How many miles? Was it dealer serviced its whole life? The answers will help you figure how close you are to needing to replace the engagement dogs, shift forks, etc.

Reactions: 1

Aussie_Bob

· #3 · Aug 3, 2015

I'll go with 'C' until 'B' kicks in.

On the upside you won't need to worry about replacing the plates I guess.

Reactions: 1

Red Enough

· #4 · Aug 3, 2015

I've got 70,000km on my 853 and I've never used the clutch to upshift. Ever. Trans is like silk.
I always use it to backshift though. Always.

RogueTS1

· #5 · Aug 3, 2015

I have always been advised by the techs/mechanics that one may shift up without the clutch by simply letting off the throttle a bit while shifting without doing harm. This is what the quickshifter is doing via the computer; cutting power for a fraction of a second while you are shifting up. However, I have always been advised that the clutch must always be used to downshift if the tranny is wished to be taken care of.

Some quick shifters allow both clutchless upshifts and downshifts while most only allow clutchless upshifts.

Owezone

Discussion Starter · #6 · Aug 3, 2015

randomtask said:
D) you are shortening the service life of your tranny

Either use the clutch or get a quick shifter w/auto blooper if you're too lazy.

Yes you can change gears without using the clutch. Doesn't necessarily mean the tranny is on its way out. BUT IT WILL BE. Your first Duc is a 1098? So I'm guessing it's used. How many miles? Was it dealer serviced its whole life? The answers will help you figure how close you are to needing to replace the engagement dogs, shift forks, etc.

It is not about being "lazy" just smooth and all my years of driving bikes cars and semi's I have never used a clutch for anything other than stopping and starting with no internal issues and smooth as an automatic trans. I have had cars with the trans machined to allow full throttle clutchless upshifts and was just wondering if what I had experienced on this bike was normal or something that may have been made to operate that way? The quick shift cuts the ignition for a millisecond to take the load off the trans just like rolling the throttle back does although I did like the air over electric push button shifter I had on my drag bikes.

I think it would be an interesting debate as to weather you should or shouldn't and weather it does damage or not.

I understood the reason for using the clutch to downshift was to keep from upsetting the rear tire but clutchless downshifting if done properly by matching the RPM it will not upset the tire one bit more than letting the clutch out in a lower gear.

As far as the bike of course it was used and I have no service history as it was bought from an auction, likely a repo. Ducati dealer has no record of warranty claims or service either

See less See more

rubbish

· #7 · Aug 3, 2015

I didn't even realize you could downshift without using the clutch without getting all out of shape...I understand blipping the throttle is what makes it possible, but I don't see how that can be smoother. If you blip the throttle when the clutch is still engaged you're basically accelerating momentarily, which is the opposite of what you want to do when slowing down.

On upshifts, yes, you don't need the clutch. But always use it on downshifts. Even a 1299 that has the auto-blipper on it from the factory, and works well, I still found it to be a bit more rough on downshifts than if I was to use the clutch properly. It worked fine, but definitely not quite as smooth as a proper clutch and blip method.

Charles

· #8 · Aug 3, 2015

I have experimented on a few occasions with clutchless downshifts, but never really felt confident or comfortable enough to go all out with it. I'm probably just gonna wait and get an aftermarket auto-blipper (one of these days whenever one becomes available for an 09 848). Or, I probably should just upgrade to an 899, and get an aftermarket Blip Box downshift blipper from Ducati of Omaha.

Regardless of what I do, this guy is pretty good at it--without the blipper; not sure how his tranny holds up to all of this, but he's definitely smooth...

RogueTS1

· #9 · Aug 3, 2015 (Edited)

Owezone does bring up a good point. Most of the Semi drivers I have known rarely use the clutch for any of their shifting, both up and down, except for pulling away from a stop. They just match speed to revs.

It can be done but I take the techs at their word that it is bad for downshifts......... the BMW rider above may have a quickshifter that works up and down.

Aussie_Bob

· #10 · Aug 3, 2015

Yeh.....nah.
You can't compare a slow reving diesel that maxes out at 5k to a Ducati twin.

Reactions: 1

Owezone

Discussion Starter · #11 · Aug 3, 2015

LOL I've never seen more than 1800rpm from my diesel...but when "floating" gears it will very loudly tell you when you are doing it incorrectly.

rubbish

· #12 · Aug 3, 2015

Charles said:
I have experimented on a few occasions with clutchless downshifts, but never really felt confident or comfortable enough to go all out with it. I'm probably just gonna wait and get an aftermarket auto-blipper (one of these days whenever one becomes available for an 09 848). Or, I probably should just upgrade to an 899, and get an aftermarket Blip Box downshift blipper from Ducati of Omaha.

Regardless of what I do, this guy is pretty good at it--without the blipper; not sure how his tranny holds up to all of this, but he's definitely smooth...

To be honest, he doesn't look all that smooth to me. Sure he's not sliding all over the place, but it looks to me like he could be faster going into the turns if he'd use the clutch and "slip it" all the way to the apex.

Oh, and there will never be an auto-blipper for the 848 since it has a throttle cable. You need ride-by-wire throttle for that feature.

Reactions: 1

Owezone

Discussion Starter · #13 · Aug 3, 2015

Not sure if I can post this vid from an iPhone?
Apparently I can! Good explanation.

RogueTS1

· #14 · Aug 4, 2015

I also note that the Moto GP riders all seem to pull the clutch for their downshifts as they are braking into the turns.................

rubbish

· #15 · Aug 4, 2015

RogueTS1 said:
I also note that the Moto GP riders all seem to pull the clutch for their downshifts as they are braking into the turns.................

That's a whole different world with MotoGP bikes...and actually most of them don't (at least the factory team bikes). They all have seamless transmission with auto-blippers that are incredibly smooth. Watch them sometime when they have the HUD up on the screen, how they'll go from like 6th gear down to 2nd in just a couple of seconds and you can't even tell they're shifting. Whole different ball game there...

spoonz

· #16 · Aug 4, 2015

A quick search of Ducati related forums on SP model 1198's will show they nearly all have had gearbox issues.

Why ?

Cos it came with a quickshifter and most owners are using it (or were). Even with that the gearbox has been failing early. The advice most owners have had is to turn it off and use the clutch except when you really need to do a clutchless shift or it will cause problems at some point.

I am guessing the 1098 gearbox is largely the same.

Example - 1198 - 1198 Sp Gearbox Problem | Ducati Forum

Shrek

· #17 · Aug 4, 2015

it's a matter of practice.

If you're unco you will get a lurch as you blip without the clutch. as you get more used to it you will not notice it at all.

I could do it sitting up with just one hand on the bars.. natch the right hand.. slowing to lights. blip ( you don't nee a big blip, just enough to raise the revs and unload the trans) snick the gear and ease the gas off again.

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.