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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Gents...

Time to pitch the Dragon Pros on my TC at 1800 miles. I'm going to try Corsa III this time but noticed that my supplier offers them in the 55 profile instead of the 50 that is with the Dragon Pro. Don't know(yet) if they are available in the 50.

If I go with the 55 profile...what does this do to the handling if anything?

TIA.

Doug
 

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The OEM 1098 tires I have seen only come in 55 profile, make sure you have the 50. The 55 will offer quicker turn-in and greater contact patch if so.

buckeye said:
Hi Gents...

Time to pitch the Dragon Pros on my TC at 1800 miles. I'm going to try Corsa III this time but noticed that my supplier offers them in the 55 profile instead of the 50 that is with the Dragon Pro. Don't know(yet) if they are available in the 50.

If I go with the 55 profile...what does this do to the handling if anything?

TIA.

Doug
 

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NP...I think you will gain acceleration but lose the turn-in and contact patch with the 50. I currently have a 50 and it's okay but I am moving to a 55.

Incidentally I have a set of the Pros with a 55 rear if you change your mind.

buckeye said:
Thanks. You are right, I typed this backasswards. The Pro is a 55 and the Corsa III is a 50.
 

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hi,

The std tyre is 55 not 50 i.e a 55 profile is 9.4mm larger in radius than a 50. Or in other words the rear of the bike will drop basically 10mm with the 50 instead of a 55... i.e slowing the steering.

If you want to run 50's like I do... use the ride height adjuster to compensate.

Jamie UK
 

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tire life or tire stick?

buckeye said:
Time to pitch the Dragon Pros on my TC at 1800 miles. I'm going to try Corsa III
Doug,

I'd think twice before swapping the Pro for a Corsa III. While it is true that the Pros don't last very long, there's a reason why Ducati put a super sticky tire on the back of your 1098. 150 hp is a whole lot of horsepower. The Corsa III will last longer because it's made with a harder compound. This means more life at the expense of stick. When it's my butt in the sadle, I want the stickiest tire money can buy.

Elton
NewDuc said:
You will gain acceleration with the 50.
ND,

How would reducing tire profile from 55 to 50 increase acceleration? Reducing tire circumference will reduce top speed, but it won't increase acceleration signficantly, if at all.

Elton
 

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Read it somewhere...and I assume it's in the same vein with going to 16.5 wheels and changing sprockets.

I don't know enough about going to the 50, but I do know that I'm going to a 55 to get better turn-in and patch.

mrinflux said:
ND,

How would reducing tire profile from 55 to 50 increase acceleration?

Elton
 

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change in velocity

NewDuc said:
I assume it's in the same vein with going to 16.5 wheels and changing sprockets.
ND,

Reducing tire cirumference, (either by reducing rim size or tire profile), is not "in the same vein" as reducing rear chain wheel size.

Reducing the rear chain wheel size reduces acceleration and, (inversely), increases top speed. It has no impact on handling.

Reducing rim size a half inch from 17" to 16.5", or reducing tire profile from 55 to 50 affects the handling characteristics of a motorcycle. It does not increase acceleration. Reducing rim size or tire profile reduces tire circumference. Reducing tire circumference reduces the distance one complete tire rotation moves the bike forward, thereby reducing top speed.

Reducing rim size or tire profile also slightly reduces tire mass. This means that the engine can spin the tire a little faster. But because each spin of the slightly lighter, smaller tire moves the bike forward less distance, any increase in the change of tire rotation speed is offset by a decrease in forward motion. So, while engine rpm will increase slightly quicker due to the reduction in tire mass, the motorcycle won't accelerate quicker. Remember, "acceleration" is a change in velocity, not an increase in engine rpm. With smaller and/or in-line 4 engines that have narrower power bands higher in the rpm range, getting to the power band quicker could inpact acceleration, but this isn't an issue with the 1098 L twin.

When measured with a radar gun there will probably be no measurable increase in acceleration with the Corsa III as compared to the Pro. In fact, depending on the amount of reduction in tire mass as compared to the reduction in tire circumference, and factoring in horsepower/torque characterists of the engine, reducing rim size and/or tire profile could reduce acceleration. If the reduction in tire mass is great when compared to the reduction in wheel circumference, (an unlikely scenario), then there will be an increase in acceleration. If, on the other hand, the decrease in tire mass is small when compared to the decrease in tire circumference, (a more likely scenario, especially when we're talking about a 5mm reduction in tire profile, which will have almost no impact on tire mass), then there will be either no change, or a decrease, in acceleration.

Elton
 

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So you're telling me that - all other things considered equal - a 190/50 is not shorter with a smaller rotating radius/circumference (if that's how you say it) than a 190/55 of the same tire from the same manufacturer?

A change in running gear circumference affects acceleration...I didn't say it was significant. The guy asked a question about what would be affected and I answered him. Come on, you've been so good about the nit-picking thing lately.....


mrinflux said:
ND,

Changing rim size and/or tire profile affects the handling characteristics of a motorcycle. It has no impact on acceleration.

Changing chain wheels changes final drive gearing and therefore affects acceleration. It has no impact on handling.

Elton
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
mrinflux said:
Doug,

I'd think twice before swapping the Pro for a Corsa III. While it is true that the Pros don't last very long, there's a reason why Ducati put a super sticky tire on the back of your 1098. 150 hp is a whole lot of horsepower. The Corsa III will last longer because it's made with a harder compound. This means more life at the expense of stick. When it's my butt in the sadle, I want the stickiest tire money can buy.


No arguement. And, I like the Pros...probably the best tire I've had performance wise. But...they are shit in the rain with no side "grooves". And here in the mountains, we get caught in showers that are very localized. It's a bit of a trade off and worth the experiment, I think.

I'm "used" to shitty mileage. Hell, I only get about 2500 from Metz M3 on my BMW K12S.
 

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I'm looking for the same compound with rain sipes...I'll be trying 2CTs in the spring when the bike is back on the road. Unless something else gets released between now and then of course.

buckeye said:
mrinflux said:
Doug,

I'd think twice before swapping the Pro for a Corsa III. While it is true that the Pros don't last very long, there's a reason why Ducati put a super sticky tire on the back of your 1098. 150 hp is a whole lot of horsepower. The Corsa III will last longer because it's made with a harder compound. This means more life at the expense of stick. When it's my butt in the sadle, I want the stickiest tire money can buy.


No arguement. And, I like the Pros...probably the best tire I've had performance wise. But...they are shit in the rain with no side "grooves". And here in the mountains, we get caught in showers that are very localized. It's a bit of a trade off and worth the experiment, I think.

I'm "used" to shitty mileage. Hell, I only get about 2500 from Metz M3 on my BMW K12S.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
NewDuc said:
I'm looking for the same compound with rain sipes...I'll be trying 2CTs in the spring when the bike is back on the road. Unless something else gets released between now and then of course.
Just talked to my tire guy (SW Moto) and he added the 55 profile in the Corsa III so they are ordered. We'll see how it goes with them. Just got the suspension to my liking so I didn't want to go down that road again.

Thanks for all the input.

Doug
 

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Those tires were my second choice only because I'm a Michelin man thus far...well good luck with them!

buckeye said:
Just talked to my tire guy (SW Moto) and he added the 55 profile in the Corsa III so they are ordered. We'll see how it goes with them. Just got the suspension to my liking so I didn't want to go down that road again.

Thanks for all the input.

Doug
 

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Erm, no. The force applied at the contact patch for a smaller diameter wheel & tire is greater than that for larger wheel/tires, hence acceleration is increased even as terminal velocity is decreased.

And yes, changing wheel/tire size is just like changing the final drive ratio.

mrinflux said:
ND,

Reducing tire cirumference, (either by reducing rim size or tire profile), is not "in the same vein" as reducing rear chain wheel size.

Reducing the rear chain wheel size reduces acceleration and, (inversely), increases top speed. It has no impact on handling.

Reducing rim size a half inch from 17" to 16.5", or reducing tire profile 5mm from 55mm to 50mm affects the handling characteristics of a motorcycle. It does not increase acceleration. Reducing rim size or tire profile reduces tire circumference. Reducing tire circumference reduces the distance one complete tire rotation moves the bike forward, thereby reducing top speed.

Reducing rim size or tire profile also slightly reduces tire mass. This means that the engine can spin the tire a little faster. But because each spin of the slightly lighter, smaller tire moves the bike forward less distance, any increase in the change of tire rotation speed is offset by a decrease in forward motion. So, while engine rpm will increase slightly quicker due to the reduction in tire mass, the motorcycle won't accelerate quicker. Remember, "acceleration" is a change in velocity, not an increase in engine rpm. With smaller and/or in-line 4 engines that have narrower power bands higher in the rpm range, getting to the power band quicker could inpact acceleration, but this isn't an issue with the 1098 L twin.

When measured with a radar gun there will probably be no measurable increase in acceleration with the Corsa III as compared to the Pro. In fact, depending on the amount of reduction in tire mass as compared to the reduction in tire circumference, and factoring in horsepower/torque characterists of the engine, reducing rim size and/or tire profile could reduce acceleration. If the reduction in tire mass is great when compared to the reduction in wheel circumference, (an unlikely scenario), then there will be an increase in acceleration. If, on the other hand, the decrease in tire mass is small when compared to the decrease in tire circumference, (a more likely scenario, especially when we're talking about a 5mm reduction in tire profile, which will have almost no impact on tire mass), then there will be either no change, or a decrease, in acceleration.

Elton
 

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Elton, as usual you are on your own page somewhere else in the book...you got this thing where you can't just accept when you're wrong or off. You told PaddyDuc that he "had a good point" when he was completely right and you were completely in your own opinion - and not right. You say good point then deflect and turn your attention to another point that you can feel right about, such as needing GP shift if you clutchless shift a lot...which is also not correct and is simply an opinion/matter of choice.

You put words into my mouth and then argue based on them. I never mentioned "reducing rear chain wheel size" and I certainly never said anything about those affecting handling. Go back to my post and read it before responding. Then you compare the Corsa III to the Pro...where the hell did that come from? We're talking different tire sizes Elton, and I made it a point to say to you "the same tire from the same manufacturer." Are you high when you post? Get with the program or don't respond...

1) You are wrong about the final drive affecting acceleration. Period. I just re-read your post and I'm astounded at the stuff you come up with/make up on your own.

2) Stop putting words in my mouth and responding to things you'd like to address when responding to my posts. Respond to my posts, fine, but respond to them accurately and don't paint your own picture of what I said or what is being discussed. It only shows how small you are and it gets a bit annoying to say the least. Especially from someone who should know a lot more after all this time.

3) This is not the first time this has happened. I don't mean to hijack other people's posts for this shit so please pay attention to number 2 for all of our sake. It's petty that I even feel like I need to respond to this crap.

Just cut the shit.

mrinflux said:
ND,

Reducing tire cirumference, (either by reducing rim size or tire profile), is not "in the same vein" as reducing rear chain wheel size.

Reducing the rear chain wheel size reduces acceleration and, (inversely), increases top speed. It has no impact on handling.

Reducing rim size a half inch from 17" to 16.5", or reducing tire profile 5mm from 55mm to 50mm affects the handling characteristics of a motorcycle. It does not increase acceleration. Reducing rim size or tire profile reduces tire circumference. Reducing tire circumference reduces the distance one complete tire rotation moves the bike forward, thereby reducing top speed.

Reducing rim size or tire profile also slightly reduces tire mass. This means that the engine can spin the tire a little faster. But because each spin of the slightly lighter, smaller tire moves the bike forward less distance, any increase in the change of tire rotation speed is offset by a decrease in forward motion. So, while engine rpm will increase slightly quicker due to the reduction in tire mass, the motorcycle won't accelerate quicker. Remember, "acceleration" is a change in velocity, not an increase in engine rpm. With smaller and/or in-line 4 engines that have narrower power bands higher in the rpm range, getting to the power band quicker could inpact acceleration, but this isn't an issue with the 1098 L twin.

When measured with a radar gun there will probably be no measurable increase in acceleration with the Corsa III as compared to the Pro. In fact, depending on the amount of reduction in tire mass as compared to the reduction in tire circumference, and factoring in horsepower/torque characterists of the engine, reducing rim size and/or tire profile could reduce acceleration. If the reduction in tire mass is great when compared to the reduction in wheel circumference, (an unlikely scenario), then there will be an increase in acceleration. If, on the other hand, the decrease in tire mass is small when compared to the decrease in tire circumference, (a more likely scenario, especially when we're talking about a 5mm reduction in tire profile, which will have almost no impact on tire mass), then there will be either no change, or a decrease, in acceleration.

Elton
 

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Thanks for clarifying this technically for me...and for Elton since he needs clarification on more than a few things whether he believes it or not. Much appreciated!

Erm, no. The force applied at the contact patch for a smaller diameter wheel & tire is greater than that for larger wheel/tires, hence acceleration is increased even as terminal velocity is decreased.

And yes, changing wheel/tire size is just like changing the final drive ratio.


+1
 

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mrinflux said:
mrinflux said:
Reducing tire cirumference, (either by reducing rim size or tire profile), is not "in the same vein" as reducing rear chain wheel size (correct but we are talking reducing rear tire size increases acceleration; no comment about the gearing) .



Reducing the rear chain wheel size reduces acceleration and, (inversely), increases top speed. It has no impact on handling (true, but who said anything about gearing affecting handing; we’re talking lowering the ride height by way of a smaller profile tire slowing the steering, in affect kicking out the front wheel a bit; small change but some may notice a difference).



Reducing rim size a half inch from 17" to 16.5", or reducing tire profile 5mm from 55mm to 50mm affects the handling characteristics of a motorcycle. It does not increase acceleration (smaller circumference will effectively reduce overall gearing) Reducing rim size or tire profile reduces tire circumference. Reducing tire circumference reduces the distance one complete tire rotation moves the bike forward, thereby reducing top speed (true, and at the same time lowering overall gearing, hence the lower speed for a given RPM).



Reducing rim size or tire profile also slightly reduces tire mass. This means that the engine can spin the tire a little faster (yes, called ACCELERATION). But because each spin of the slightly lighter, smaller tire moves the bike forward less distance, any increase in the change of tire rotation speed is offset by a decrease in forward motion. So, while engine rpm will increase slightly quicker due to the reduction in tire mass, the motorcycle won't accelerate quicker. Remember, "acceleration" is a change in velocity, not an increase in engine rpm(if you lower gearing you are raising RPM). With smaller and/or in-line 4 engines that have narrower power bands higher in the rpm range, getting to the power band quicker could inpact acceleration, but this isn't an issue with the 1098 L twin (gearing affect all bikes; the shorter stroke inline fours can rev higher pulling a lower overall gearing to a higher speed)



When measured with a radar gun there will probably be no measurable increase in acceleration with the Corsa III as compared to the Pro. In fact, depending on the amount of reduction in tire mass as compared to the reduction in tire circumference, and factoring in horsepower/torque characterists of the engine, reducing rim size and/or tire profile could reduce acceleration (disagree as already mentioned). If the reduction in tire mass is great when compared to the reduction in wheel circumference, (an unlikely scenario), then there will be an increase in acceleration. If, on the other hand, the decrease in tire mass is small when compared to the decrease in tire circumference, (a more likely scenario, especially when we're talking about a 5mm reduction in tire profile, which will have almost no impact on tire mass), then there will be either no change, or a decrease, in acceleration This is why when some go racing, they are really fast, and others seem to be really slow. You must have a basic understanding of the forces at work and how to make your bike quicker…. and better be able to stop quicker as well, cuz if you are going to go fast you better know how to stop!!!



Elton




Hi Elton,



I believe you are attempting to extrapolate the information but all other factors being equal if you run a smaller tire you have lower overall gearing. Granted, the difference between a 55 and a 50 profile is small, but there is a difference. The only way you can demonstrate the difference is to measure the wheel rollout and calculate the effective change of the overall gearing. Lower gearing yields quicker acceleration otherwise why drop one tooth off of the countershaft sprocket. If you made a big enough change in downsizing the rear tire you would see a quicker acceleration due to both the overall gearing being lowered and the fact that the smaller tire has less mass.
 

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Word to tha mutha.....

ST-Moto-1098S said:
Hi Elton,



I believe you are attempting to extrapolate the information but all other factors being equal if you run a smaller tire you have lower overall gearing. Granted, the difference between a 55 and a 50 profile is small, there is a difference. The only way you can demonstrate the difference is to measure the wheel rollout and calculate the effective change of the overall gearing. Lower gearing yields quicker acceleration otherwise why drop one tooth off of the countershaft sprocket. If you made a big enough change in the rear tire you would see a quicker acceleration and due to both the overall gearing being lowered and the fact that the smaller tire has less mass.
 
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