[StevenAthas]

Not sure if anyone has discussed this in detail yet but I've read a few articles as they relate to body position but nothing really specific only to crowding the tank.

Recently I have been trying to get faster in corners and safely increase my lean angle but I noticed that I am really up on the tank a lot. I know that I should be pushing myself back in the seat a little bit, but to be honest, I feel like I'm really high in the seat when I do that. Do all of you guys feels that way?

Since the ergo's are basically identical on the 848/1x98, felt like you guys would have some good input on this. I have been trying to get my knee down and I just can't seem to get my knee out far enough. I find myself a little twisted with my knee going towards the front more and I have been told it's more than likely because I'm crowding the tank. This also makes me sit somewhat upright because since i'm so far up on the tankI can't really get my upper body down because the tank is blocking my torso.

Some of the other issues I have:

Gripping the outside leg on the tank consistently. How are you guys locking in? Heel? Thigh? Back of the knee?

Too much weight on my inside leg (as I feel myself sliding off my outside leg, I transfer basically all my weight to the inside leg which causes me to pull my knee back in).

Where on the peg is everyones inside foot? I see some people with the edge of the peg on the ball of their feet and some people with the ball of their feet completely on the peg.

Are you guys pretty much all the way back in the seat? Doesn't that feel like you're high up on the bike? What are you guys doing to slide off the seat before the corner? Pushing with the off leg? letting yourself fall into position? I have been getting on my toes and moving over but notice that my inside leg then begins to carry a lot of weight rather than holding on with my outside leg.

Seems like this whole gripping with your outside leg thing would be pretty self explanitory and easy to do but I am really having a hard time not sliding off. Are tank grips really that important on this bike? There has to be something I am or am not doing.

Thanks in advance for all who can help out.

 

[Tchase]

Don't over think it, your knee will touch when you are hanging off and that pulls the bike around... I'm on my balls of my feet, butt back but chest on tank or at least that's how I set up.

 

[Tchase]

One more others with more experience will chime in, I'm having trouble with throttle grip on my right handed turns working on the door knob grip...

 

[StevenAthas]

Don't over think it, your knee will touch when you are hanging off and that pulls the bike around... I'm on my balls of my feet, butt back but chest on tank or at least that's how I set up.

Nicely done T!! Are you finding it at all troublesome to grip your outside leg on the tank or anywhere else for that matter? Like is it something that you're conciously having to do?

How tall are you and how much do you weight? I'm just about 5'11' 190lbs and it feels a bit awkward trying to grip the tank with my outside leg.. I keep feeling like im slipping off

In your pictures, it doesn't look like your thigh is locked into the tank.. What in God's name are you haning on to?

 

[ducktard]

Its funny you say that. Im 5'10" and you are describing the main reason im not riding the 1198. I just can't lock on. Ive actually spent a lot of time and money putting an1198 motor in a 998 chassis. The 998 fits me perfect. I push my outside knee into the tank and kinda wedge it in by pushing the peg with the ball of my foot. I fit perfectly with my ass back in the chair. The 998 seat is very high in the back. This gives me more room for the inside leg between the bike and the track. I really wanted to get an 1198, but it was really hard to ride for me for this reason

 

[ducktard]

One thing is you definitely don't want your crotch into the tank. If you scoot back and have your inner thigh on the back corner of the tank and face your whole body into the turn, and dont twist yourself around the tank.

 

[Tchase]

I'm 6'1 205-210 depending on if I've taken a shit...

I think most of it is in my head. I've taken 3 classes with my track days. beginners and intermediate in one org, then paid more money for a different org and I was way above anyone in class (not that is saying much).

I can not stress as others have, if you just go to track without instruction you will progress slow and top out at some point. The second org school was worth the extra money I got way more one on one and more valuable information.

But here is the thing and its only my opinion. The instructor in the good class said there is no "right or wrong way" meaning what ever works for you, yes there are things to work on that are proven techniques like how he pointed out I'm not getting my outside arm straight, and he is right its much easier to get your head out there with your arm straight instead of clutching the tank as you can see in my pic LOL.

Most times I'm working on not tensing up but still using my legs to squeeze where ever they might be. At the same time I'm telling myself light on the BARS.... If you feel you are slipping off maybe your tank grips need adjustment or replaced mine just seem to work I don't get full contact but enough to get a grip much like your tires contact patch. Moving your pegs up so your legs find the grove in the tank helps as well. Also as I said I'm on my balls just under my toes basically locking them on the pegs or at least trying, I'm a little duck footed in that shot.

I'm watching more and more motogp, its crazy there are lots of little variations from each rider just like how many fingers they use on the brake..

I'm glad you posted as I'm still trying to figure it out as well

 

[Tchase]

Oh I will fully admit my goal was to scrape my knee on my first day, it rained but did it on my second day, it scared the piss out of me although I was trying. But I think I've gotten better (smother/ faster) for not trying it happens occasionally and at this last track day I was dragging the right which really was a first since I always struggle in right handers. But the instruction was so good I improved on the corners giving me problems next thing I know I'm making contact..

 

[jwm2k3]

Getting a knee down happens not from sticking out your leg, but a function of correct whole body position.

When your upper and lower body position are good, your knee will touch...

If it dosent, you're not going fast enough. :yo:

 

[Tchase]

This was from my last track day vested for instruction, a good shot of where I'm at on the bike not sure it's the best example

 

[Tchase]

Yep look at JWM's feet there not pointing out like mine..

 

[rubbish]

I got lost in all the questions. Nothing wrong with asking, but most of those are things that are easier explained in person, and even easier if you have a bike around. I suggest that for your next track day you find an instructor and have him follow you around and he'll tell you if you're doing something wrong with your body position. Try to find an experienced one.

T is right though...don't overthink it. Sure there are a few basic things that should be followed regarding body position, but a lot of it is based on how you feel comfortable. If you look at the body positioning that the guys in GP500 used to have back in the 90s or before, you'd think "wtf are you guys doing and how are you fast riding like that??"

All in all here's a summary of generalized guidelines...some may agree or disagree, but it works for me and many others:
- move your butt off the seat a bit in the direction of the turn. One buttcheek is enough, don't try to over-do it (like you said that you're TRYING to get your knee down....don't try...it will come with more lean angle. You won't to drag a knee? Then lean the bike more, don't force your knee out.)
- inside foot with the ball of the foot on the peg
- outside foot locked in on the peg with your heel. Most boots have a 1/2-1" heel pretty much for that reason.
- shoulders square with the bike, and the back should be parallel with the center axis of the bike, as seen from the front or behind (do not confuse this with "in line" with the bike...I really mean parallel...just look at pictures of faster riders and you'll know what I mean)
- your body will naturally slide towards the tank when you brake. Don't fight it. Use the tank to hold your weight and also to look in on using your outside thigh when you start turning.
- you can also use your outside arm to rest on the tank depending on your size and position of clip-ons and such. I'm still working on this as well...
- put more weight on the inside peg with your foot. If you hang on the bike correctly, you should be able to take your outside foot off the peg and your outside hand off the handle bar and not fall off...not that I suggest doing that as a newbie, but if you're doing everything correct, you should be able to do that.
- don't death grip the throttle....this is what I struggle with the most, and the reason my right arm goes numb after not very many laps. Seems to be a bad habit and a hard one to fix for me. Most people I talked to don't have this issue though.
- probably the most important thing....LOOK FAR INTO THE TURN!


Oh and one more thing regarding dragging knees...it really is a function of speed. I used to be the same and would really try to stick my knee out to drag it on the ground and I'd always feel like I was about to fall off the bike or tuck the front end. Stupid thing to do...it pretty much meant I was going to slow and if leaned the bike more at that speed I would crash. Solution was to just go faster ....also it's not really all that it's cracked up to be. Looks good in pictures, but why go through knee sliders if you don't have to? I still have my original ones that I've had for 4 years. Usually I lean to the point that my knee touches and then I raise my knee up a bit and lean more. So I only touch the ground for a fraction of a second.

 

[Tchase]

Rubs pointers are dead on! Fuck me nobody ever told me to put my outside heel against the peg that's going to help a lot!

 

[rubbish]

Rubs pointers are dead on! Fuck me nobody ever told me to put my outside heel against the peg that's going to help a lot!

Yeah it took me a couple of years to learn that as well when I heard a couple of instructors mention that...then I looked at pictures of pros or other really fast guys, and noticed they all do that. It'll take a bit to get used to doing that, and at first you'll have to think about moving that foot over, but just like with anything else, it becomes 2nd nature once you're used to it. In a tight chicane you may not want to do that though because you may not have enough time to switch your foot over when flicking the bike from one side to the other. Use your judgement I guess.

It's just one of those thinks that helps with comfort IMO...and being more comfortable translates to more confidence in going faster.

 

[vfrman]

Its funny you say that. Im 5'10" and you are describing the main reason im not riding the 1198. I just can't lock on. Ive actually spent a lot of time and money putting an1198 motor in a 998 chassis. The 998 fits me perfect. I push my outside knee into the tank and kinda wedge it in by pushing the peg with the ball of my foot. I fit perfectly with my ass back in the chair. The 998 seat is very high in the back. This gives me more room for the inside leg between the bike and the track. I really wanted to get an 1198, but it was really hard to ride for me for this reason

Really? I'm 5'6" and have no problem on my 1098. My inseam is retarded short too, something like 29"... I slide my foot forward on the outside peg until the heel of the boot locks on the peg, scootch my ass over so just one cheek Is on the seat, lean forward and in so my chin is over my wrist, and try to push my elbow forward and down so you can almost draw a straight line from the end of the bar to my elbow (still working on this one), and let me inside knee hang out naturally. I also put my inside foot on the ball and don't really point it out. I also sit back in the saddle. This helps me get my huge gut over and around the tank. LOL.

 

[Dmitriy5099]

Take note of how vfr is holding his throttle in the above pic. That's what's you gotta do in the right handers. Hold it as if you are holding a screwdriver.

I've subscribed to California Superbike Schools email blast and they periodically send out tips. Penguin Racing School does that as well. I strongly recommend attending CSS

 

[219R]

Good conversation... I am interested in clip-on bar position, back closer to the tank? Or further forward? Up against the bottom of the Triple? or lower? also I find the position of the footpegs is pretty interesting, on my DP folding pegs, I like them up (as high) and back (as far), although I have tried forward and as high.... can't decide, I am 5'7" and short armed/legged... and old..... hard to teach an old dog new tricks!!!

 

[182 Racing]

one butt cheek is enough, butt make sure it is a full cheek. Someone faster then me once told me "if your nuts don't feel the breeze then you ain't ever dragging knees." Head down and forward imagine kissing your rear view mirror if it was installed. Spine in straight alignment.

 

[Tchase]

Good conversation... I am interested in clip-on bar position, back closer to the tank? Or further forward? Up against the bottom of the Triple? or lower? also I find the position of the footpegs is pretty interesting, on my DP folding pegs, I like them up (as high) and back (as far), although I have tried forward and as high.... can't decide, I am 5'7" and short armed/legged... and old..... hard to teach an old dog new tricks!!!

View attachment 89828

Reminds me another reason I didn't like the 899 bars were way to forward mine must be adjusted close to the tank. I like the pegs high and forward.

 

[vfrman]

I think bar and peg position are all dependent on individual taste. Put them wherever it feels the most comfortable for you.