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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can someone please explain what the noise is coming from with the dry clutch? Engaged, Disengaged, it's all a mystery to me and I can't remember when the clutch is "engaged" or not.....under power or when the lever is pulled.

Please excuse my ignorance. I'm trying to educate myself here! LOL
 

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When the clutch is disengaged (lever pulled), the plates separate slightly and rattle around due to engine vibration.
Let the lever out and the plates press together and stop rattling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I guess my confusion was over the fact that the clutch lever is not pulled when the bike is not in gear, but nonetheless is DISengaged. Thank you, now I understand! Clutch is ENgaged when bike is in gear and underway.

Lever pulled,OR bike in neutral, clutch is DISengaged. Very simple!
 

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Actually, when the bike is not in gear, but the lever is not pulled, the clutch is still engaged (capable of transmitting torque) it's just not under any load so it rattles. Clutch is always engaged until you pull the lever to disengage it. Doesn't make any difference if you're in gear or not. Just like a manual transmission in a car. You can't put it in gear without disengaging the clutch first. So it's engaged. In neutral. Until you pull the lever/push the clutch pedal. I just made it worse, didn't I.
 

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Sort of, but not really:(

I'll try to simplify it.

Whether the transmission is in gear or not. The clutch can be either engaged or disengaged (obviously).

An engaged clutch, is only possible when the lever is released.
Disengaged, is only possible when the lever is pulled into the handle.

When the transmission is in any gear, and the clutch is "engaged"(lever released) one will have drive to the wheel.
With the transmission in neutral, it is possible to have the clutch "engaged"(lever released) but there will be no drive to the wheel.

In summary.
Lever released (clutch engaged).
Lever pulled into the handle (clutch released).

Lever released(clutch engaged), the noise is coming from the whole clutch pack assembly "banging around and potentially providing drive.
Lever pulled into the handle(clutch released), the plates in the clutch pack are loosely jingling around and are incapable of providing drive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I completely get it now. THANKS to all!! That sound of the dry clutch just changes in nature with the disengaging but the rattle goes away under load.

Which is a good thing!

The bike I'm buying has some sort of racing non-Ducati clutch that's a slipper clutch. It has a huge Leo Vince set up, I'm thinking it might be a full system. It appears that all tasty trick items were put on it and then it was not ridden until the second owner put 1700 on it.

I plan on test riding it extensively and I'll KNOW if there is anything wrong with it. If it runs just fine and lights me up, I may have found a real prize that was "disposed of" in Miami FL after someone "had to" get rid of it in a hurry......I wonder why? LOL South FL is full of crazy stuff and insane people!
 

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Welcome to the forum Frank!

I completely get it now. THANKS to all!! That sound of the dry clutch just changes in nature with the disengaging but the rattle goes away under load.
Yep, exactly! The sound actually comes from many things, but most of the dry clutch tick-tick-tick and rattle sounds come from the gap between the friction plate pin's and the notch in the basket. When the bike is under load, in gear, and moving forward, those pins push against the basket and the noise goes away. If you put a sealed cover on the clutch, it sounds like a wet clutch bike when riding down the road.

A few manufacturers make clutches with rounded pin's instead of squared ones, which quiet down the clutch A LOT. Aluminum friction plates also help greatly because they don't "ding" when hitting the basket and steel plates.

So there are "solutions" but many Ducati owners are like myself and LOVE the dry clutch rattle. In my opinion, it's one of a few things that separates the brand from others.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
For sure, we are different. I've had six before this 999 I'm buying. ST4 851 748 ST3 748 and 999S

I am hoping the 999 will be a little less frantic than the 999S because I enjoy lugging the engine slightly now and then, the 999S always wanted to spin up and stay there...LOL

All of them are "thinking man's bikes"....be it male or female rider, you must THINK when you ride and pay attention.

Is that not why we ride in the first place?

The complete opposite is riding an automatic scooter.....can be great fun but a good rider would soon become very bored I guess. Or at least become very tempted to ride it around without proper gear on...all bad in my opinion.
 

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What do you mean by less frantic? There won't be any difference between the 999 and the 999S. They're the same bike aside from suspensions and a few other minor bits.
 

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Welcome Frank, been a long time since we've seen each other..

Chris Edwards, now in Dallas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
What do you mean by less frantic? There won't be any difference between the 999 and the 999S. They're the same bike aside from suspensions and a few other minor bits.
Well, it's confusing but in 2005-2006 the S did mean a lighter crank as well, as in the 998R. I was told that the 999 would typically be less "smooth" as the 999S in that year.

I've had a 2005 999S which I loved but sold and miss it. I found a nice one in FL with 1700 miles and am thinking that it's a great investment. I hope it doesn't turn out to be a nightmare, all I can do is test ride it and go from there.

If it does not put a big grin on my face, I'll walk (run) from it. I know what a blast these bikes are, smooth...rough....frantic...it should run and sound like a wonderful machine!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Welcome Frank, been a long time since we've seen each other..

Chris Edwards, now in Dallas.
Wow! You never know who you find along the way! I've been in Dallas a few years ago. I bought my Corvette from Corvette World, with 16K miles and ten years old. It's a 2000 in Torch red with Torch Red interior, simply brilliant! It's the best car I've ever had a love affair with. It's like hanging out with an obnoxious old friend every time I get on it, and in top gear it's like an economy car! Now with 38K on it, she's all nice and broken in with velvet smooth gearbox, sounds terrific on the gas too.

Chris, check out the bike I plan on buying the day after Christmas. I'm taking a two day Holiday to drive down and get it, take it back and drop it off at Donnie's for new belts

Used Cars for Sale Naples FL 34102 KS MOTORS
 

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Looks good, not sure if that price is a little high, hopefully you've negotiated a bit on that.

You are probably going to need tires as well, flush the brake and clutch fluid while Donnie has it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm obsessed over that tail section. Nathan at Ducpond said that they saw very few of them back in the day and most of them did not fit properly. They even went to the extent of making custom installations for people because they were a nuisance. So, the odds of finding another 999 with that tail section is rare plus I see a value of at least a thousand dollars with the Leo Vince exhaust as well.

I also fell in love with it because it is set up the way I like things, stock windscreen but nice little bits here and there, especially the rearsets and slipper clutch. Then there's the low mileage, which gets my attention in the first place.

No red key or owners manual, which I can believe is par for the course when people dispose of something in a hurry (going to jail, don't care, rich asshole, etc..)

The German guy who is a Mercedes tech. settled here in '99 and is established in a wealthy area, Naples FL. Klaus seems sincere in telling me that he can move Harleys easily but can't sell Ducatis. I can't imagine how for such "little" money, anyone would go through such an extent to attempt to make this bike appear as new, while it was seriously damaged somehow ......I do worry about the fact that someone could have changed the instrument cluster to show 1700 miles......but all that takes money.....the price of the bike could never recover all that investment in it.

Anyhow, I have a contract on it for 7300 out the door, no tags or plates. I'll haul it straight to Donnie and invest another grand or so and at the end of the day hopefully have a very special Ducati!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The real question is, how can Ducati have gone from a 20,000 dollar bike with the 999 to a 15,000 dollar bike with the 1098 giving more performance? Something had to "give" in the process. There simply must be cost cutting in going to the 1098 somewhere somehow.

I'm no racer or mechanic and I've never ridden a "new" Ducati (Post 999) but from what I've read, the bikes prior to the 1098 were their best effort at focused bikes irrespective of cost, consumer appeal or marketing. A "true" Ducati, if you will.

With that said, there's nothing at all "wrong" with the modern bikes, just more aimed at a broader market. Maybe I'm full of crap and don't know what I'm saying.....please correct me if I am.
 

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The real question is, how can Ducati have gone from a 20,000 dollar bike with the 999 to a 15,000 dollar bike with the 1098 giving more performance? Something had to "give" in the process. There simply must be cost cutting in going to the 1098 somewhere somehow.

I'm no racer or mechanic and I've never ridden a "new" Ducati (Post 999) but from what I've read, the bikes prior to the 1098 were their best effort at focused bikes irrespective of cost, consumer appeal or marketing. A "true" Ducati, if you will.

With that said, there's nothing at all "wrong" with the modern bikes, just more aimed at a broader market. Maybe I'm full of crap and don't know what I'm saying.....please correct me if I am.
Not to nitpick on numbers, but the difference was not as drastic. The base 999 MSRP was in the mid-$17k range here in the US when it came out, and the S was $23k...whereas my base 1198 was $16.5k msrp (and that wasn't a first year model, in was a 2010) and the S model was about $22k if I remember well. It seems like those models were the sweet spot though...the older bikes were more expensive, but when the panigale came out prices went up again.

I don't think they really gave up much. For one, the 1098 was quite a bit lighter than the 999 because it used most plastic and reduced overall materials (which also happens to be cheaper). The other thing to keep in mind is supply and demand. I have no clue about the numbers made, but perhaps Ducati made more 1098s than 999s, which reduced cost. The more you make of something, the cheaper it will be. Lastly, technological advances...this is true with pretty much everything, and most definitely any sort of vehicles. Look at all the gizmos and stuff you can get in a new car nowadays. A 2015 Dodge Ram 1500 has a LOT more shit in it that a 1995 one did, but it's not like the price went up by a factor of 10. It's gone up, but a lot of that is due to inflation, not so much because of the features in it.

I can't speak from personal experience as far as riding other generations of Ducatis, as I've never ridden any Ducati superbike pre 2009, but pretty much all the local Ducati guys I've talked to have moved on to newer bikes with each generation. Some had the 749/999s when they came out and they said they were the best bikes ever. Then moved on to 848/1098s and they said those were the best bikes ever. Now they moved on to Panigales, 899/1199s and these are the best bikes ever.

Since I work in manufacturing, my personal opinion is that NO company comes out with new products that are worse than the previous line. If they do, they won't be in business for much longer. They might not make huge improvements, or they might have to sacrifice one thing for another but overall, every model of whatever product a company makes, whether it's a bike or car, etc. IS better than its successor.
 

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The real question is, how can Ducati have gone from a 20,000 dollar bike with the 999 to a 15,000 dollar bike with the 1098 giving more performance?
The 749/999 series had A LOT of development, it was an entirely NEW design, especially the race bikes. They needed to recoup on the initial investment and all of those special new parts, which were manufactured in Italy.

Ducati lost their shirt financially during the 749/999 era. They almost went out of business for a 2nd time and were brought back to life just in the nick of time.

The 848/1098/1198 was rushed into production and many of the components were made in Japan or China instead of Europe, which cut down costs substantially. Ducati smartened up, they developed a squad of new, lower priced motorcycles which were performance based. They started pushing the clothing line in order to boost profits. There was a huge shift in the company during that era and it was absolutely for the better fiscally and brand recognition.

Is the 848/1098/1198 a better machine then the 749/999? The 749/999 were better designed in many ways, but the 848/1098/1198's chassis is absolutely phenomenal, destroys the standard ol' 749/999 frame. The 749/999 uses better engine components, more emphasis on performance. The 848/1098/1198 put emphasis on reliability and longer times between service intervals. Increase the bore, increase the stroke and decrease the max rev's, these are just some of the reliability changes.

In the end, yes Ducati did go "cheaper" on the 848/1098/1198. However, they made something that on the surface, out of the factory, was a better product. To a manufacturer, that's a win-win and the Panigale makes one HUGE leap further in that same direction.
 

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The real question is, how can Ducati have gone from a 20,000 dollar bike with the 999 to a 15,000 dollar bike with the 1098 giving more performance? Something had to "give" in the process. There simply must be cost cutting in going to the 1098 somewhere somehow.
I bought a first year 1098S. If the old brains cells can be kicked into life, from what I remember, the base was $16,995, the 'S' was $20,995 and the Tri was $24,995 in 2007. They sold just about everyone that was delivered before it hit the dealer. I had a deposit with Donnie, for mine, months before the bike arrived, bought the full Termi system and had it sitting in my office for a month before Donnie called me and said Ducati had pulled his allotment of 1098's. Via the big Ducati email list, I found one that been delivered to Brockton,MA a couple of days earlier and the person who had the deposit on it pulled out, so I bought it from FL.

I'm not sure where you think the 999 is superior to the later supposedly cheaper 1098's. The 1098 came in gobs more power, better brakes, I believe less weight and a nip and tuck taking her from a Janet Reno to a Cindy Crawford. The 1098 rendered the unsold 999R's overpriced and destined to sit and collect dust on the showroom floors.

Ducati had suffered with miserable sales and image for about 4 years with the 999, the 1098 was a breath of fresh air.

I know you have a bit of a love affair with the 999, but you have to question, if the bike was superior or desirable, why is it sitting at a used car dealership?

I also know you are a big guy, and I'm a bit surprised you are still leaning towards a repli racer for the street, especially trading up a S1000RR.

Why not lean towards a little more cutting edge naked sports bike like a Streetfighter or a Tuono V4? Just a thought.
 
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