[thewheel69]

Hi folks, I saw a couple earlier threads where people were having problems with engine light on and EXVL error code even through my bike has been working properly for the past 7 years (2012 MTS1200S) and have the cat removed and replaced with straight header pipe with a GPR can.
I also have a Power Commander V which was installed and mapped.
The only thing that happened was I was installing new driving lights and had to pop off the cables to the battery...
Any thoughts on how to remedy?

Do DUC-EEs wear out? Wiring?
Servo is still in place but not connected of course.

thanks

john

 

[BOTT]

Disclaimer: Do not own/ever owned a duc. Sill learning FI/code/general computing.
By removing the RAM saved, or disconnecting the battery, the ECU is checking parameters. So with the disconnect/reconnect, I believe it reverted back to ROM. I wouldn't think the EE is short when it was running all this time, now with the battery disconnect, doubt it would be the EE going belly up. Make sense?

Will it take a type of 'learn' to turn the code light off, a few rides if not a lot of riding. The key switch, or so many cycling of the bike to learn by ride. Meaning, if say it would take 20 key cycles to clear the code, it won't work by turning the key on and off 20 times meaning. But this is more for an 02 sensor disconnect, wipe the RAM, now relearn via cycling of the ride input to learn and turn the light off.

The next would be to remove the aftermarket part, plug back in the servo to clear the code. Either ride and see if the code clears, or just plug in the servo and see if the light goes off fandango.

Signed,
NOLTT (no one listens to turtle)

 

[thewheel69]

BOTT thank you for your reply and advice. I have also been communicating with the maker of the DUC-EE and he is recommending something similar... disconnect for 30 min with no power to ECU to clear it. I have also reconnected temporarily the original exhaust valve servo and its kicking it on at start up so the circuit is live.
Ill keep trying to clear the code!

thanks

 

[BOTT]

Ill keep trying to clear the code!

It's not going to be easy in a way.

I'll explain a code set, see if you understand how the diagnostic tree sees it:

This is open a computer bike shop manual, read the abstract and try to figure out WTF they mean is it means this I think:
1. Connector not connected. See how it's obviously not this?
2. Wire out of connector. Can't be this either.
3. Sensor;
a. Short - Like saying it blows fuses, but it doesn't in this situation.
b. Open- Like saying a bulb filament is blown inside the unit breaking the flow. I'm guessing not this via battery disconnect.
c. Signal out of range - This is more likely the issue.

Being the bike is build with formula, each sensor has or puts out a certain value that is part of the ohms math design. Certain parts have a built-in resistance factor. The EE cannot replicate a stepper motor/servo kind of input. Therefore it is wired to keep the light turned off is the guess. It's still coded however.

Look how the servo sends in an analog signal. Analog means many. That servo is constantly moving in different positions.
Look at the way the EE is built and can no longer send in analog, but a digital input, or a single input.

By that I mean, the ECU works by reading binary 1's and 0's. So a no code [analog] set is the input signal. The two only inputs are read as a number, or it triggers a backup, a fail-safe, a check engine light, or the word limp mode, where the ECU takes action to shutdown the 'out of range' input to a safer mode so as to limp the engine in a lot of ways, but still runs.

So the correct input of the original designed signal looks like this: 10001011010110001010101 = Won't code; is within spec range sending in the analog as designed.
An incorrect input signal is recognized by the ECU as: 000000000000000 = A single digit that can't send the analog or many different number to see who is at this speed in rpm, who is in this position is TPS, then were do I set the stepper motor in WATT position? I would think locked open. Locked closed would stall the engine.

For the 30min drawdown, I'm thinking it might not work. But WATT do I know. But to meguyveer that whole thing so easy a fix. Do you see it yet?

Looks like one of those Ivan Performance TRE sucker born every minute elixirs trick in the book says otherwise.

Signed,
NOLTT (no one loopholes turtle theory)

 

[thewheel69]

Hmmm interesting write up on the background on how its designed to work. Thanks (and yes, way over my little pea brain) but, Im working from historical context that the bike ran for 7+ years just fine with the current set up... then I go in and add driving lights (directly wired to battery) and in my fiddling around with all the wiring under the seat, I believe I must have shorted something because the fuse connected to the bike lights blew... I replaced the fuse, lites work fine, start up the bike... and whammo... all the dash/engine lights go off. DTC and ABS and Suspension codes have since been cleared and the only code left is the EXVL... so... wtf?

 

[BOTT]

A beer says go right back to all OEM, zero accessories wired up to the bike at any points.

1. Think about the analog being the servo's input, the ECU being back to all systems within spec is the input. That should shut the light off in so many rides, or the ping back and forth shuts the light off along with the other codes that popped up. So back to bone stock, remove the ground wire off the remote light, or pull fuse you installed for now.

I'm also assuming the servo does not know if a cable is on it or not, nor does the ECU. All sensors are installed, no electrical [voltage] drop in lights if directly hooked up to the key to turn on?

2. The second part is the PC is a temporary disable. The point being, you wish it was that easy, but the ground off the PC still means it's grounded by the piggybacked injector connector tie-in. The OEM connector is ground for the injector so it all has to exit the loop of the OEM. Ground off the PC, both connectors of the PC off and let dangle.

This now says; let the code clear by ride or a simple connect, key on, light goes out. I'm going to guess two things happen:
a. The key is turned on, the light goes off, give or take 5-8 seconds. Key is turned off. Connect the EE. Turn key on. Light stays on. Start bike. Light goes off. Reconnect the lights, PC. Test ride. No light comes on. That's like it was 7yrs ago.

b. Key is turned on, light stays on. Start bike. Code remains after the 8 second window. Take the bike for a ride. Home now, key is off. The ECU is going to learn and now wait for the code to self clear. Then install everything back up.

Make sense?

-EDIT- forget how the lights are hooked up. I reread and caught it.

 

[thewheel69]

Wow... BOTT, i dont know what you do for a living/fun but I'd love to buy you a beer sometime if possible... I get everything you are saying and agree. (even though I dont have a clue how you got there...) but will try this tomorrow and let you know the results. Im hopeful at this point.
cheers

john

 

[BOTT]

For me to hear that someone can understand the basics of a computer bike, you already bought the beer. I picked up riding again and had sort of like a culture shock and said, what did I just buy? WATTS a computer bike? And then got on the net and asked. No one could answer my questions, so believe it or not, just reading the definitions of analog and digital locked me in for years, trying to figure out how it worked?

Bought the shop manual, read the abstract in the book, and then hacked the bike. Sort of opened the hood of the black box and reversed engineered it in a way. I needed basic theory. Where was it? Like I said, it was an on and off study taking years to see the puzzle pieces move into place.

It's because it's in the absolute. It only works one way is nature is literally handcuffing you to follow her, or magnetism. I could go on, but I'm here to study the computer. I learned about Triumph's black box. I'm seeing how this computer works.

I'm more testing theory out in the field and you are the field test to see if it works like a generic computer bike... in theory that is.

 

[thewheel69]

Well after I get out from behind THIS computer, I will test my skills at following direction and let you know the results... as I said, I am hopeful because what you said makes theoretical sense and I understand 0's and 1's from my BASIC and VB days of messing around.

 

[BOTT]

BUMP

 

[thewheel69]

BUMP

Hey sorry for delay (go live week for a client).
soooo… I put everything back to stock (still have straight pipe and can but plugged in servo which still works) replaced lithium ion battery with standard AGM. Took driving lites out of circuit. Rode bike multiple times (over 20 cycles of start stop) and still had EXVL error on dash…. Then I noticed I was having some intermittent issues with the menu’s switch on the left bar (lower button that toggles modes, etc for set up). With bike on the center stand I began wiggling wires leading down bar into bike innards and found a short! Zip tied area to get some consistency as I’m not ready to dive in yet to find the physical short or replace that whole switch loom…. Winter has made its appearance here in Colorado so this now becomes its own intermittent project!
I’m beginning to think I have another wire loose in the EXVL circuit and trying to find the potential break

thoughts?

 

[BOTT]

My thought was; going back to base would show up more clues like WATT you've described. I've had a similar situation. I'd work that short out before the EX disable is reconnected. And the possibility of the code set is trouble tree 3c or 'short.' And short still is in the loop of the EX I would think. Also that the servo is a good working unit, it still points to EV's wire loop, being my thought on this as well.

 

[thewheel69]

Agreed. I guess I’ll sort the short first and go from there.

 

[thewheel69]

BOTT, I have been in conversation with the developer of the DUC-EE and here is what he had to say:

"I've seen issue before when it was an air pressure sensor. Also a fuel pressure sensor.
Remember... for some of these bikes there are many modes of input for the error to come in but only ONE error light? So it could be anything.
For the DUC.. i know they use the "EXVL" error code. But that is just a general code for many potential issues.

Below there i meant to say...
".. If the stock kit CAN'T clear the code that there tell us something..."

The PC only probes your timing and accesses your fuel injectors and spark plugs. I know it maybe a big job to remove it out of the equation. If if you can bypass it and put the bike to stock that would be a great troubleshooting avenue.

Try this... unplug the battery(we want to clear the ECU) and PC. Let the battery off for few hours. Make sure there is zero voltage going to the bike. Allow the internal capacitance of the ECU to completely drain. This should clear any configuration that is not in rom.
Most time people will have the battery off for less then a min. That might not be enough." Try for at least 12 hours...

 

[BOTT]

Most time people will have the battery off for less then a min. That might not be enough." Try for at least 12 hours...

I've had ECU's sitting on the bench for maybe months or a year or more still hot. So the deal goes like this:
1. Remove ECU from connector or however easy it is to get at all the pins on the black box.
2. Find ground pin on the ECU.*
3. Ohm meter set to volts or millivolts.
4. Ground probe of the meter is clamped to ECU's ground pin. Positive probe taps every pin.
5. Watch the meter for a spike at a pin. You tagged a capacitor still hot holding voltage. Go back and tap that pin again till it shows no volts like the other pins you'll tap going down each row.
6. Install the ECU back in. Bike starts at zero (0000) ROM.
7. All OEM sensors/stepper motors reconnected. Bike is as if rolling out the dealer door brand new, etc.
8. Key on/engine off, all sensors are pinged, should show no codes on the dash.
OR:
9. EXVL pops up as the only code.
10. Still says 3c = 'Open' [wire dropped] from ECU to stepper motor.

Going to guess the stepper wires being 3.
1. Ground wire. This says it can move in both directions.
2. Hot wire. This says it completes the loop to magnetize the motor.
3. ECU motor wire. This is an output signal like to the spark or injector. This is where I stub my foot. You said it does actuate if revving or key cycling. I'm thinking it cycles like some tach and speedo's zero out at the dash, key on? But that says 3rd wire did come from the ECU and did zero [motor] itself out [if applies]. Get it? All wires show a complete loop (+/-) and receives output -3rd wire.

Remember... for some of these bikes there are many modes of input for the error to come in but only ONE error light? So it could be anything.

So let's play this scenario. Say you found the glitch you mentioned addressing, say that did not clear it. Now say you ride it and find the next 'phantom code' accumulate on the dash. Sort of remember who popped up first and then once all are showing, start with the second code set, then try to match that in the loop of sensors.

For example: Could not stop a guy from throwing parts at it, because he said it cleared with key on. So the loop was the [replaced] cam sensor threw itself as a 'phantom' code again. <<< NOLTT. Whereas, he found the crank sensor bolt came loose... [installing an aftermarket advancer].

Kind of see the crank was still within spec and could fire off the bike, but no code sent because it has to fail to set a code. Plus it did not meet the 3amigos in siesta under the trouble tree. But those two were both in the loop and counter coded. That's what he was talking about. So a second spit code would or should be in some sort of 3some?

The 3some being the example of cam/crank/ECU?

I guess I’ll sort the short first and go from there.

How far along with that variable are we?

* Ground: 12v and 5v have their own ground. Find ground on a sensor, the injector wire. Might show a multiband in the wire? A 12v wire might have a single color or a line of a different color. Those might have two different grounds on the frame going out of the main harness. Find those ground colors and your ground at the connector going into the ECU's ground pin.

 

[thewheel69]

Quick update after being dormant over this crappy winter weve had in Colorado... got PMS bad!!! (Parked Motorcycle Syndrome)
I finally got the motivation to make it out to the shop on a sunny 50 degree day and get back into this "project" after having an epiphany... KISS... (keep it simple stupid)
Go back to what was going on prior to installing the driving/fog lights... everything was A-OK... then I mucked around with the wiring under the seat and the EXVL code happened. (along with the left switch wiring to control the dash functions)
So... I went back to stock but got the same things... then I remembered blowing a fuse when I turned on the lights... perhaps that also did damage to the DUC-EE Dongle?
I had an extra one from another bike and plugged it in... and TA-DAA!!! No EXVL code! (I also bought a new switch and wiring for the left side and installed that and have no issues with the ABS/Traction Control or glitchy switch toggling through menus)
I am whole and compete as before...
Thanks for the input/ideas/sleuthing and suggestions. Hopefully this will help the next mts1200S owner!