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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

My 1098 starter clutch might be dead so I'm hoping the gurus might be able to help. I'll break this into 2 parts.

Part 1: The question---

Does anyone know if the 1098, 1198 and 848 starter clutch is interchangeable?

I found (from the parts diagram) that the 2008-2009 848 starter clutch is the same as the 1098 (pn 701.4.008.1A). However, the 2010 848 and the 1198 starter clutch are both the same (pn 701.4.023.1A), but different from the 1098. They also happen to be 1/2 the price of the 1098, according to ducati-omaha online store.

The reason I'm asking is to see if i can order the cheaper 1198 and 2010 848 version. They are also widely available on ebay USED with less mileage.

Part 2: Background---

My 2008 1098 with 8300 miles is tough to start from cold since...forever. It starts fine when the engine is nice and warm. After i got my 7500 mile tune up I started noticing it making a loud CLANK-CLANK noise once in while during cold start, then chugs and stops turning over. It will then starts with a second press of the button. It did this before the 7500 mile tune up too, but rarely.

Fast forward to last Saturday, it would not start no matter what. Initially, I thought it was the plugs fouling up. So I replaced them with a brand new pair along with a fully charged up battery. Nothing! It turned over for one compression cycle and the starter bounced out and spun freely. I finally decided to put it into gear and rocked it back and forth. After a couple of those, it started and ran fine. Rode it 25 miles (freeway) to my parents' garage for further diagnostic. On the way there, it ran super smooth and had me believed that it was fixed. It started up right away right after the trip when the engine was warm. However, when i tried it the next day...same thing - turned over 1 cycle and starter bounced out and spun freely.

After reading numerous posts about earlier models of Ducati and Triumph with the starter clutch failing I found that the symptoms were exactly the same as mine. I'm going to open the crank case up this week to take a look at the starter clutch and gearing.

But for now...have any of you had this issue? This seems very odd to me that a new-ish 1098 has this problem. Do you know if this is a symptom of some bigger problem or just a failing/bad starter clutch?
 

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My 848 did this when it was cold, and when the voltage dropped down a little. It can't have been down by much - a short spell (hour or so) on the battery tender had it starting as per normal.

Start with the easiest solution first. Battery fully charged. If in doubt, put a new one in. Then check connections to the starter motor. You never know - problem could be a simple fix!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yup. Did all that. New battery, checked electrical connection and new spark plugs with good spark. I can hear the starter motor spinning, so it's not electrical.
 

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Well my 2007 1098 had very similar problems. If the battery was anywhere near below its 14v - forget it. And when it was trying to turn over, it would suddenly stop and do this horrible whirring and clunking sound. Even when I got her started using the car battery (didn't have time to wait 2 hours on the optimate), after 100 miles hard riding - she wouldn't start again after an hours rest. I assumed the battery wasn't keeping her charge.

Seems I had a 'lazy' battery but not enough to change it. Seems I had to have my sprag clutch replaced. I have done 16k miles on the 1098 so I suppose it figures. I was told once the sprag clutch goes, you must change it quickly because it can start to affect other major parts.

I was also told the original sprag clutch was the same as the previous models but what with the smaller/lighter battery on the 1098, the sprag clutch was too small. So they made it bigger. The part does fit the 848 (the box had 848 model on mine). The part cost me £55 plus the UK tax (VAT) which came to £70. The difficulties is getting it into the machine - it has to be drained of most of its fluids: oil, coolant, etc. So if you can do this yourself, you'll save yourself some pennies!

Now one other thing you may be interested in..... the ducati dealer told me that ducati have modified all the starter gearings because of the above problems. Not enough to do a recall but you should be able to have the lot changed free of charge - even if it is like mine and outside of her warranty as it was a well known problem with the starting. You should check this with your dealer.

Hope the above helps a bit! Btw - since I've had the sprag clutch put in, she's like new when starting. I usually only have to press the button once - maybe twice on a cold morning. Yay!
 

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All the sprags I have seen so far have been the same, however the starter gear ratios vary between some models. Later models were changed to give the starter more cranking power to the engine. I am confident the sprag itself is interchangeable across all the models.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks LTWIN and LEGS. I was busy opening it up so haven't been back to check the responses. I tried the old trick of swapping the spring on the sprag. Did this because there was little wear on the sprag and the surfaces (gear and flange). I bought the oil seal fron NAPA like others have mentioned and used the spring in it.

To cut it short, the clutch engaged and was able to crank the engine. The bike starts now, but it still requires a couple of pushes on 41 degrees F days. Same things with warm start after a ride - it starts after one or two revolutions.

I will keep an eye on it to see if this solution lasts, if it doesn't I will get a new sprag. Perhaps even the flange and the gear :(
 

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All the sprags I have seen so far have been the same, however the starter gear ratios vary between some models. Later models were changed to give the starter more cranking power to the engine. I am confident the sprag itself is interchangeable across all the models.
My normal Ducati dealer (who mainly works on the professional racing bikes now) told me the reason why our local Italian bike dealer in Silverstone (who services Paul's MV and took my ducati due to the emergency of the situation and their proximity to us) couldn't source a sprag clutch from their current collection, was because the 1098 requires a bigger size. All the clutches they had were for previous models and they had to order mine from Ducati Italy.

Surely two sets of specialists can't be wrong - one of whom worked with Ducati Italy for 20 years as an engineer? Maybe I've got it wrong ..... :popcorn:
 

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2007 ducati 1098s starting problem

Need help. I got a 07 1098s 13kmiles. The other day the bike starts great but still noticed the spinning freely thing and today it would not crank. Speedcell battery is fully charged but for some reason I can turn on the bike, press start and it will turn over one or two times then it will spin freely. I have sean that everyone is saying it can be the clutch starter but if I take it all apart what do I look for to see if the starter clutch is the problem or could there be something else?????
 

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Starter spinning freely

2007 1098s spinning problem. Does anyone why my starter with turn the bike over a few times then spin freely and does it a lot. Its like the battery hasnt got enough power to turn it over but I even put the jump start on it and didnt change anything.
 

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What you describe certainly sounds like a lazy sprag Micheal.

Very Late response to you Legs.... I have an old sprag and outer race here from my previous 996 and it is identical to the one I replaced in my 1098. Even the 996 flywheel is the same as the 1098. Perhaps parts are different in models built for other countries??:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sorry for the late response.

Micheal135, I agree with ELTWIN, what you're describing is exactly what happened to me with the sprag going bad. What's happening is the sprag has got just enough friction to catch onto the flywheel to turn it a few degrees. When it hits high compressions areas the sprag doesn't have enough friction so it gives out and the starter motor spins freely there. If you get stuck somewhere and in a pinch you could try putting it into gear and rock the bike out of the high compression area, and MAYBE it will have enough momentum in the flywheel to start. BUT CHANGE THE SPRAG ASAP!

I bet you if you pull it apart and look at the sparg, the middle spring is totally stretched out. Dealer will tell you to replace the whole package (sprag, outer-race, and inter-race/the gear) to be sure it a permanent fix. They're not wrong, but that's the expensive way - about $700 plus labor. If you want to do it yourself, just replace the sprag and that will get you going for a few thousand miles, like mine did.

Or, if you're lucky, you can find a used package on Ebay for about $250 with a few thousand miles on it. I did that and have it as my back up when ever my new sprag gives out.

Good luck and let us know what you find.
 

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Yea thanks.Took it in and found out they got recalls on the hole drive train and will replace it and everything for free if you say it doest like to crank when its hot. So if it happens to you or anyone again remember.
 

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the starter is geared directly to the motor, there is no armature to engage the gear like with a car engine, if it is freewheeling, it's 99% likely that it's the clutch. find an online shop manual link, bust out some tools and a little patience, or open your wallet.
 

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Well, these are the same symptoms my bike is having now. 2007 1098. My dealer told me that the sprag clutch is bad. Ducati has since updated the sprag clutch since the 2007 1098 to a beefier one to assist with starting. The bad news is that not only will you need to replace the sprag you will have to replace the inner and outer housing pieces that surround it (due to it being larger now). I was told that all the parts required would be about $500. That does NOT include labor. I was told the labor will not be too tough. So, to answer someones early questions is that the older 1098 sprag clutchs are NOT the same as the newer 1198 and 848, but with purchase of the newer improved housings that go with the sprag you can install the newer ones.
 

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BTw, the guys at the shop said that installing the new improved sprag clutch will dramatically improve the way the bike turns over and starts. compared to the old style. I dont think you can even order the old style for the 1098 anymore. since the updates have been made.
 

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mine's shagged as well, although mines a 2008 model with very low miles, still seems to be some confusion over whether they upgraded this or not, some saying they did, some saying they all use the same part number.
 

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Any ideas on how to get the flywheel nut off? I have the case cover off, exposing the flywheel, I have a 30MM socket and large torque wrench but Im spinning the motor. Tried putting it into gear and holding down the rear brake but its slipping on the clutch plates. I also need to go buy a cheap flywheel puller once I get the nut off.
 

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A lot of start-up problems on here which I have never encountered, in 67,500 kms ('07 1098S).
I have, however, replaced a number of these 'sprags' on various models. (And check out the price of the equivalent Aprilia twin parts if you think Ducati charge too much).
And just to clarify the battery size issue referred to by Legs - the '07 1098s had a large YTX-14 battery (similar to many of the Aprilia twins), but they went to a much smaller/lighter BTX-12 on the '08. Bad move.
Many of these problems occur whilst trying to start up with a weak battery, and that banging sound can be the sound of permanent damage to the one-way sprag.
The poor starting can also relate to excess resistance in the wiring.
So check all the heavy cables between the battery, solenoid and starter motor, and from the battery to the earth.
I spotted early on that the terminals on the solenoid had loosened up, and tightening them improved starting.
Resistance at these critical terminals generates heat, adding more resistance, and can ultimately melt insulation of the terminals (eg. starter motor).
 

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Any ideas on how to get the flywheel nut off? I have the case cover off, exposing the flywheel, I have a 30MM socket and large torque wrench but Im spinning the motor. Tried putting it into gear and holding down the rear brake but its slipping on the clutch plates. I also need to go buy a cheap flywheel puller once I get the nut off.
The rattle gun is the best way to loosen some of these major parts. But a flywheel holding tool is not too hard to make.
Member Rockit made one up for minimal cost, but I'm not sure how to find the thread. This is where brett63 is missed..
Maybe try a PM to Rockit? He's a resourceful fella.
 
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