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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've seen a couple remarks by the guys (read: lucky bastards) who've already taken possesion of their 1098's regarding particular handling issues, which I believe are attributable to the same set up maladjustment.
So, I've pulled those posts over here made an initial explanation of the issue and solution in the hopes that it will help more riders properly configure their 1098's to their user preference.

rapidrobin said:
Hi Peet. I find the brakes great but with just one or two fingers. From top speed they are very progressive and easy to control. The bike does tend to try to stand up braking hard into turns.
Hope you are having lots of fun with your 'S'
rapidrobin said:
Well done guys. You will not be disappointed. I have done just on 3000kms now and the bike is really awesome. It eats mountain passes and tight, difficult roads and changes direction very quickly! Only negative so far, the front gets a bit light above 280km/hr. Robin
Generally when this occurs it is because the front is "riding to high". This phrase refers to the form of the correction that must be made to correct or moreover reduce this situation. When the front is said to ride high it means that there is too much of the bike weight behind the front axle and while braking this weight tries to push the bike straight. Think of a truck pulling a trailer and then slamming on the brakes; the trailer desperately works to come around the front of the truck! And, if the braking force / weight comination is sufficient, it will.
Because of the way a bike has to lean into a turn to to resist centrifugal force, Newton's three laws of motion are manifested, in order, in a very thrilling fashion!
Applying the brakes is the catalyst that sets off the chain that ends up with you and your bike in the dirt.

Solution: you must move more weight toward the front by either lowering the front and/or raising the rear depending on clearance issues etc. Doing this will reduce the effect of the transfer in response to the brakeing force and better allow you to hold the line through the turn.
However, transfering weight to the front naturally adds stress to the front tire. Overloading the front will cause a "washout" that will also end up with you and your bike in the dirt. And, more weight on the front will require more effort on the part of the rider in order to accomplish directional changes. Thus, a balance must be achieved.

On a seperate explanatory note, the reason manufacturers set bikes up like this from the factory is because weighting the front can make low speed steering heavy and difficult for all riders.

And, as rapidrobin mentioned earlier about the 1098 being very shaky and unstable at high speed, this is also attributable to insufficient loading of the front of the motorcycle.
 

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Someone measured the weight of the 1098 by using two accurate scales (think it was on another board) ... one for the front tire, and one for the rear. The weight distribution was almost a perfect 50/50 ... I think within less than 2 lbs of each other. This was with a full tank of fuel.

After reading you post above, is there any setup "rule of thumb" that addresses the weight distribution and how it affects handling?

Thanks for the info. :smoking:
 

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van-man said:
I've seen a couple remarks by the guys (read: lucky bastards) who've already taken possesion of their 1098's regarding particular handling issues, which I believe are attributable to the same set up maladjustment.
So, I've pulled those posts over here made an initial explanation of the issue and solution in the hopes that it will help more riders properly configure their 1098's to their user preference.





Generally when this occurs it is because the front is "riding to high". This phrase refers to the form of the correction that must be made to correct or moreover reduce this situation. When the front is said to ride high it means that there is too much of the bike weight behind the front axle and while braking this weight tries to push the bike straight. Think of a truck pulling a trailer and then slamming on the brakes; the trailer desperately works to come around the front of the truck! And, if the braking force / weight comination is sufficient, it will.
Because of the way a bike has to lean into a turn to to resist centrifugal force, Newton's three laws of motion are manifested, in order, in a very thrilling fashion!
Applying the brakes is the catalyst that sets off the chain that ends up with you and your bike in the dirt.

Solution: you must move more weight toward the front by either lowering the front and/or raising the rear depending on clearance issues etc. Doing this will reduce the effect of the transfer in response to the brakeing force and better allow you to hold the line through the turn.
However, transfering weight to the front naturally adds stress to the front tire. Overloading the front will cause a "washout" that will also end up with you and your bike in the dirt. And, more weight on the front will require more effort on the part of the rider in order to accomplish directional changes. Thus, a balance must be achieved.

On a seperate explanatory note, the reason manufacturers set bikes up like this from the factory is because weighting the front can make low speed steering heavy and difficult for all riders.

And, as rapidrobin mentioned earlier about the 1098 being very shaky and unstable at high speed, this is also attributable to insufficient loading of the front of the motorcycle.
I find my 1098s a little lighter and twitchier at high speed than my 999s but it's a lot lighter and more powerful so that was to be expected, It still feels amazing stable at speed in comparion on the japanese IL4 1000's that I have ridden. I'm running it in on stock setting but may steepen the head a little as I did on the 999 but it doesn't feel like it needs it to me so far, the stock settings feel awesome. As a note, the rear height adjustment looks minimal so dropping the fork crowns looks like the way to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Someone measured the weight of the 1098 by using two accurate scales (think it was on another board) ... one for the front tire, and one for the rear. The weight distribution was almost a perfect 50/50 ... I think within less than 2 lbs of each other. This was with a full tank of fuel.

After reading you post above, is there any setup "rule of thumb" that addresses the weight distribution and how it affects handling?

Thanks for the info. :smoking:
You guys have to remember that static weight measurements do little to help you figure out the front/rear weight distrubution of the bike in motion. When you accelerate, weight transfers to the rear, when you brake, weight transfers to the front. How much transfers depends on how much accleration/deceleration we are talking about. The purpose behind achieveing a 50/50 static balance is simply to give you optimal start figures. Besides, in no way is the bike 50/50 once you sit on it.

That said, the only "rule of Thumb" that I ever had passed to me was that static sag needed to be set at 1" to 1-1/4" front and rear. And, the bike should start at roughly equal damping rates. You want the front and rear wheels to work together. If one end compresses or rebounds slower than the other, then encountering a bump will unsettle the chassis.
But with regard to geometry settings, I've always been old school about it. I just make a small adjustment, ride the bike through a series of turns where the problem is most notable and gauge the change. Companies like GMD Computrac were created with the idea in mind that they could measure your bike, with and without you on it, calculate various figures of what the bike will do with you in motion and help you set up the bike accordingly. I've heard mixed results about this approach though...
 

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van-man said:
You guys have to remember that static weight measurements do little to help you figure out the front/rear weight distrubution of the bike in motion. When you accelerate, weight transfers to the rear, when you brake, weight transfers to the front. How much transfers depends on how much accleration/deceleration we are talking about. The purpose behind achieveing a 50/50 static balance is simply to give you optimal start figures. Besides, in no way is the bike 50/50 once you sit on it.

That said, the only "rule of Thumb" that I ever had passed to me was that static sag needed to be set at 1" to 1-1/4" front and rear. And, the bike should start at roughly equal damping rates. You want the front and rear wheels to work together. If one end compresses or rebounds slower than the other, then encountering a bump will unsettle the chassis.
But with regard to geometry settings, I've always been old school about it. I just make a small adjustment, ride the bike through a series of turns where the problem is most notable and gauge the change. Companies like GMD Computrac were created with the idea in mind that they could measure your bike, with and without you on it, calculate various figures of what the bike will do with you in motion and help you set up the bike accordingly. I've heard mixed results about this approach though...
i aggree, first find de right "dry" setup where fornt en rear damp equally, then work your way from there. I always look for the setup on a track day, ideal for extreme conditions.

i wouldn's change the geometry just for topspeeding, just make the steeringcompression a bit stiffer, you notice less..... less grip is often just between your ears :D
 

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All bikes tend to stand up when braking into a corner. Some more than others due to the amount of weight the wheel/tire/brake set up weighs. Lighten the wheels, for example, and you feel this phenomenon less but this will always happen. The key is to lean the bike farther over! As you lean more this force is counteracted and it actually has the perception of going away! Don't beleive me, go try it on your next track day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
duc1098 said:
All bikes tend to stand up when braking into a corner. Some more than others due to the amount of weight the wheel/tire/brake set up weighs. Lighten the wheels, for example, and you feel this phenomenon less but this will always happen. The key is to lean the bike farther over! As you lean more this force is counteracted and it actually has the perception of going away! Don't beleive me, go try it on your next track day.
Good point. Setting into your line, proper modulation of the brakes, and proper rider positioning are all equally important elements of the right set up.
 

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Nice thread. Thanks for the info guys.

I wonder what this bike will feel like compared to my 06 R6? I would have to think it will be more stable but not as easy to change directions.
 

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Yeppers

HooKerzNbLo said:
Nice thread. Thanks for the info guys.

I wonder what this bike will feel like compared to my 06 R6? I would have to think it will be more stable but not as easy to change directions.

I think you are correct. It's always a trade-off between stability and flickability.
 

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I got the 1098S wiggles heading to 100mphs, my thought where the steering damper. I tigthen it a bit. I'm I heading in the wrong direction....I have to say that my 750 F1 handles better. Or it seems. Any help before I wreck it.
 
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