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so you're going to nanny them night and day, and you're going to be with them everytime they go riding are you? And you're going to have that much control over another human beings urges, that you believe you will be able to give them enough tuition and training so that when they do get the urge to OPEN the throttle, that they will have enough skills and competencies to be able to handle a 1098 as their first bike, all after you have finished with them?
Part of the agreement is that the bike stays with me until they are done.

what happens if hypothetically, you're not available one day, and they say, ahh stuff it I know enough to go out by myself now, I don't need peguphisarse to follow me today, and they do go out, and they do OPEN the throttle, and the DON'T yet have enough skills to be able to handle their learner 1098, and they do find themselves in trouble, and they do wind up dead in the front of an oncoming car, bus or truck?
Once they have the skills down they are officially on their own. They have a license and weeks of personal instruction. At that point, if they elect to do something foolish and counter to what I have instructed, it is on them. What I have seen in every case is that the slow methodical training gives them an appreciation for how dangerous it is to abuse a motorcycle. Even the neighbor's 22 year old with the gixer 1000 decided he didn't like the collection of friends he was riding with because they rode "stupid" and made a lot of the mistakes I had warned him about. He rode with me mostly until he got married and needed to sell the bike to buy a house. His dad has been very appreciative of what I taught his son.

governments and other regulatory bodies, do put things in place to protect people from themselves and from killing themselves, and other innocent people, and it's generally in reaction to social experiences. Speed cameras were invented to save lives in populated areas, because people flauted the law consistently, and people kept dying as a result of it. That is a fact of life, get used to it, there is no such thing as a truly free democracy, and there never will be, but I have to live peacefully and law abidingly within the framework of whatever society I choose to populate. So do you. I have to be responsible, otherwise I get fucked in the arse in jail. That doesn't mean I believe it all, and I subscribe to it all, but some of it does make sense, as opposed to your current hypothesis. YOU are NOT being repsonsible to other people with your stupid propositions. FULL STOP. The more you argue it, the more you make yourself look like a complete tosser.
Good points until the end. Paradigm shifts are difficult.
 

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Sounds like you are on the right track! Please let us know how it goes with training and the purchase of your motorcycle. I am glad to hear that you are putting training ahead of buying, this will do you well. Vette people rock! Am i right? -Ed
 

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Wow. Innane in the extreme.

Yet... I must say, what authority do you have to judge yourself as an expert rider? Are you accredited with any of the multiple motorcycling associations? If you have such a good training system why haven't you patented it and making a fortune? A 100% survival rate is a great advertising feature...

And yet... still nothing. You talk about freedom, but you restrict the rights of others. You say our laws are limiting and imposing and how our lawmakers don't ride... Newsflash boy. Until you are aware that in multiple parliaments in Australia we have guys who ride, including Speakers, you can't make catch all statements. And yet the limitations you place upon others are far more extreme than anything our country does.

Does the 1098 have a twitchy throttle? Yes and no. No it is a smoothly delivered response. Yes in the hands on an inexperienced rider that isn't sure of how ANY bike behaves it's wild and uncontrollable.

Every single bike I ever sit on and ride for the first time, I have an extremely light hand upon the throttle until I know where and when it'll kick in and how the bike sounds when I'm getting into the torque and HP. And yet, a beginner won't do that, they've had years of seeing people on TV really twist it up.

Your arrogance is astounding, you are outnumbered by 6 to 1 in your views, by some people who have been riding as long as yourself, some less so, possibly some more so and yet you insist that your way is the only right way.

We're not beating an agenda here, we're trying to think of what is best for another person and that isn't what you are advocating. Because odds are, even if your training system works, she doesn't live near you, won't be able to train with you and will have to work inside the ordinary system which doesn't cater for coddling control freaks who lock their bike up just so that they can't twist the throttle.
 

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Discussion Starter #227
so you're going to nanny them night and day, and you're going to be with them everytime they go riding are you? And you're going to have that much control over another human beings urges, that you believe you will be able to give them enough tuition and training so that when they do get the urge to OPEN the throttle, that they will have enough skills and competencies to be able to handle a 1098 as their first bike, all after you have finished with them?

And what happens if hypothetically, you're not available one day, and they say, ahh stuff it I know enough to go out by myself now, I don't need peguphisarse to follow me today, and they do go out, and they do OPEN the throttle, and the DON'T yet have enough skills to be able to handle their learner 1098, and they do find themselves in trouble, and they do wind up dead in the front of an oncoming car, bus or truck?

Yes governments and other regulatory bodies, do put things in place to protect people from themselves and from killing themselves, and other innocent people, and it's generally in reaction to social experiences. Speed cameras were invented to save lives in populated areas, because people flauted the law consistently, and people kept dying as a result of it. That is a fact of life, get used to it, there is no such thing as a truly free democracy, and there never will be, but I have to live peacefully and law abidingly within the framework of whatever society I choose to populate. So do you. I have to be responsible, otherwise I get fucked in the arse in jail. That doesn't mean I believe it all, and I subscribe to it all, but some of it does make sense, as opposed to your current hypothesis. YOU are NOT being repsonsible to other people with your stupid propositions. FULL STOP. The more you argue it, the more you make yourself look like a complete tosser.
It's quite simple really -- if they do that, then they deserve what they get? Why do you care so much? I'm not going to do that, so you can stop wasting your time preaching to the choir of people who think that would be a stupid thing to do (ePegasus and I are both in your choir on that issue).

I don't see why you think throttle control will be a foreign concept to me? Turn it slowly from off to however much on you want it to be. That's a pretty simple concept. It isn't an on-off switch, and I don't intend to treat it like one. I'm not overconfident, and I won't be pushing the limits in any quick jumps. And I won't ever be pushing the limits on the street. That's what parking lots and tracks are for.

I'm really really tired of your dogma.

Just because you don't think you could've controlled your testosterone if you had a 1098 for your first bike, doesn't mean that other people in the world have the same lack of self control.
 

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Discussion Starter #228
Every single bike I ever sit on and ride for the first time, I have an extremely light hand upon the throttle until I know where and when it'll kick in and how the bike sounds when I'm getting into the torque and HP. And yet, a beginner won't do that, they've had years of seeing people on TV really twist it up.
Every single car I drive, I do the same exact thing. I test out and acquaint myself with the limits of new skis/boots/bindings before I go race on them. The same for anything else unfamiliar or, especially, new. Why on earth would I not transfer that practice to motorcycling?

You assume FAR TOO MUCH about what a beginner will and will not do. We are all DIFFERENT. Sure, most beginners might just twist it up; however, as I attempted to establish in my first post, I'm not the same as most beginners. I'm not an 18 year old frat boy who drives a Honda Civic and has NO EXPERIENCE with any relation to life-threatening dangerous sports whatsoever. I have plenty of experience with speed and powerful equipment -- experience which has taught me how much RESPECT all such forms of equipment demand.

STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS.
STOP BEING CLOSED MINDED.
STOP BEING A JERK.
STOP!
 

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Really,the worst thing you got to be aware of with bikes is the balance;
Cruising to a stop,braking,stopping and putting a foot down (or 2) will seem natural,but making a panic stop being from 5mph or 50mph is all there is to be scared of at 1st;dropping bikes on their sides w/o any impacts (like,God forbid,on cars) is the main thing most of beginners suffer.

So mastering the front brake reaction is mostly all there is going to be for you if you make good on your promise of respecting the fact that you got a vehicle that is way faster than your vette.(you can pull over 5Gs accelerating on twins).

Welcome to biking world.
 

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Every single car I drive, I do the same exact thing. I test out and acquaint myself with the limits of new skis/boots/bindings before I go race on them. The same for anything else unfamiliar or, especially, new. Why on earth would I not transfer that practice to motorcycling?

You assume FAR TOO MUCH about what a beginner will and will not do. We are all DIFFERENT. Sure, most beginners might just twist it up; however, as I attempted to establish in my first post, I'm not the same as most beginners. I'm not an 18 year old frat boy who drives a Honda Civic and has NO EXPERIENCE with any relation to life-threatening dangerous sports whatsoever. I have plenty of experience with speed and powerful equipment -- experience which has taught me how much RESPECT all such forms of equipment demand.

STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS.
STOP BEING CLOSED MINDED.
STOP BEING A JERK.
STOP!
I was talking to ePeg in my post because he shat me to tears with his statements but since you've decided that it was a personal attack upon yourself...

And yet you assumed that I was talking to you. Who is making assumptions now?

I'm not being closed minded, I've seen what people do when they're inexperienced, I've seen people who think that they've finally managed to get somewhere manage to wipe themselves off the planet. I've thought I knew what I was doing when I was learning and ended up slamming into a tree. There is a VERY good reason why I advocate a smaller, less powerful bike, one that will hopefully go a hell of a lot slower than any of the bikes you've thought about getting.

It's not a matter of how good you think you are, how well the bike handles, how much we think your decisions are based on an immature need for speed that will screw you over, but one little rock did it for me, I was leant over around a corner, a rock threw my tyre into the air, when it came back down the torque threw me into tank slappers and I went rolling into said mangroves.

That was on a 250. On a road I knew well. Couldn't see the rock far enough in advance to avoid it and paid the price. Had it been a 600 or 1000 with the difference in upspin of the back tyre would have sent me flying into the mangroves rather than tumbling and I probably wouldn't be writing this message now.

I could probably control it a lot better now because I survived my mistake and know how to deal with such problems. That's what experience gives you. Experience on smaller bikes where the crashes aren't involving far more power than is even reasonable for someone inexperienced.

And was I acting at all dangerously? No, I was obeying speed limits all relevant road rules.

And no doubt you will refer to your first post about how you have experience with high powered vehicles, you're great with adrenaline, you're not an ordinary learner. That's nice.

You're not the only one who deals with adrenaline. I love adrenaline rushes, I go out of my way to seek them. But nowhere near my bike. Why? Because anything that gets your pulse going like that on a bike will most likely kill you.

Stick to your drifting and stop pissing everyone off with your arrogant statements and I'm sure you know yourself better than we know you. But we know bikes better than you.

But you will do whatever you wish regardless of what we say. We won't know if you do go out and buy yourself a high performance bike as your first bike, we won't know if you lose it on the first corner before you even manage to get to a MSF course. Who knows, you might get lucky and all the bad things that we've been warning you about might not happen.

But the odds are against you. If you're lucky you'll survive them. But I don't know you. And frankly, we've done as much as we can to lessen those odds, we've done our duty of care. So if you do stuff up, if you do end up in a wheelchair or worse, we'll be sorry for you, but we will have tried to warn you. So I for one won't be shedding a tear if you go against all logical and reasonable advice and the bad things happen to you.
 

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Discussion Starter #235
I was talking to ePeg in my post because he shat me to tears with his statements but since you've decided that it was a personal attack upon yourself...

And yet you assumed that I was talking to you. Who is making assumptions now?

I'm not being closed minded, I've seen what people do when they're inexperienced, I've seen people who think that they've finally managed to get somewhere manage to wipe themselves off the planet. I've thought I knew what I was doing when I was learning and ended up slamming into a tree. There is a VERY good reason why I advocate a smaller, less powerful bike, one that will hopefully go a hell of a lot slower than any of the bikes you've thought about getting.

It's not a matter of how good you think you are, how well the bike handles, how much we think your decisions are based on an immature need for speed that will screw you over, but one little rock did it for me, I was leant over around a corner, a rock threw my tyre into the air, when it came back down the torque threw me into tank slappers and I went rolling into said mangroves.

That was on a 250. On a road I knew well. Couldn't see the rock far enough in advance to avoid it and paid the price. Had it been a 600 or 1000 with the difference in upspin of the back tyre would have sent me flying into the mangroves rather than tumbling and I probably wouldn't be writing this message now.

I could probably control it a lot better now because I survived my mistake and know how to deal with such problems. That's what experience gives you. Experience on smaller bikes where the crashes aren't involving far more power than is even reasonable for someone inexperienced.

And was I acting at all dangerously? No, I was obeying speed limits all relevant road rules.

And no doubt you will refer to your first post about how you have experience with high powered vehicles, you're great with adrenaline, you're not an ordinary learner. That's nice.

You're not the only one who deals with adrenaline. I love adrenaline rushes, I go out of my way to seek them. But nowhere near my bike. Why? Because anything that gets your pulse going like that on a bike will most likely kill you.

Stick to your drifting and stop pissing everyone off with your arrogant statements and I'm sure you know yourself better than we know you. But we know bikes better than you.

But you will do whatever you wish regardless of what we say. We won't know if you do go out and buy yourself a high performance bike as your first bike, we won't know if you lose it on the first corner before you even manage to get to a MSF course. Who knows, you might get lucky and all the bad things that we've been warning you about might not happen.

But the odds are against you. If you're lucky you'll survive them. But I don't know you. And frankly, we've done as much as we can to lessen those odds, we've done our duty of care. So if you do stuff up, if you do end up in a wheelchair or worse, we'll be sorry for you, but we will have tried to warn you. So I for one won't be shedding a tear if you go against all logical and reasonable advice and the bad things happen to you.
I didn't assume you were talking directly to me. You were talking about beginners, and I am a beginner. You made a blanket statement that beginners are out for only speed and will just twist the throttle. I was pointing out my counter argument to that blanket statement.

I made a mistake using the word adrenaline way back. I meant something more like intense fun. My heart rate stays quite calm. Sports make me feel very happy, though, and I mis-expressed that as adrenaline.

About your story, I can see why you feel the way you do... but I believe that there is more than one way to learn these things (on your own / the hard way.... vs. with an instructor / the less painful way). Lots of people never have the experience you had, yet still learn the lesson you learned from it. I'll work very hard to learn those lessons from instructors, on the track, etc. I'm pretty sure one of the lessons you probably learned from that fall would be to let off the throttle, and disengage the clutch (disconnect the engine from the transmission) when you are in such a situation. That way, the torque won't wreak havoc like it did when the rear wheel regains traction to the road. I trust that my instructors and parking lot/track time can help me to learn the others.

Thank you for your concern. I do hope you can sleep a little easier by realizing that I truly take this endeavor very seriously, and I am not about to jump into this recklessly.
 

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It's quite simple really -- if they do that, then they deserve what they get? Why do you care so much? I'm not going to do that, so you can stop wasting your time preaching to the choir of people who think that would be a stupid thing to do (ePegasus and I are both in your choir on that issue).

I don't see why you think throttle control will be a foreign concept to me? Turn it slowly from off to however much on you want it to be. That's a pretty simple concept. It isn't an on-off switch, and I don't intend to treat it like one. I'm not overconfident, and I won't be pushing the limits in any quick jumps. And I won't ever be pushing the limits on the street. That's what parking lots and tracks are for.

I'm really really tired of your dogma.

Just because you don't think you could've controlled your testosterone if you had a 1098 for your first bike, doesn't mean that other people in the world have the same lack of self control.
go buy a 1098.

You are quite misguided. I don't care. I just opine.

And it would seem there are quite a few others who share my view.

bye bye baby doll.
 

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Wow, lots of opinions in this topic.....Well. Short and sweet. My bikes: (From 96 to now...)

96 Katana
97 TLS
98 TLR
99 CBR 900RR
00 TLR
98 TLS
03 Z1000
01 RC51
06 KTM 950 Supermoto
09 Harley "RAT ROD"
08 1098

I only had my Katana for 1 month before I was ready to burn it to the ground...please notice a trend in all my other bikes. I listened to other people about "what" to buy and "what" to learn on....I could've done without the time and money wasted on that 600cc piece of crap.

I jumped to a TLS in 6 months of owning that "Can of Tuna." Everyone gave me the same bullshit advice about not buying a bigger bike to start on. Exactly: BULLSHIT. You are a grown ass woman and can clearly make sound decisions. Do what makes you happy, before it is too late. Besides...do you want to live forever? Bottom line: Some people let their poor choices (while on the bike) and egos, get in the way of good judgment. Those are typically the people/squids that have crashed early in the game. They will never admit that their egos and inability to "ease" into the bike, were the contributing factors to a wreck. They claim or state that the "bike size" or "model" was what caused them to crash--Kinda like an alcoholic, who claims it's the beer and not their piss-poor decisions and lack of self control.....

You seem like a "solid-minded" woman, so I'm confident you will know the "place" and "time" to open that 1098 up...but you should not deny yourself the sheer pleasure of a personal intimate relationship with her.

Good hunting...
 

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Im not getting into the arguement of this whole bullshit of a thread. BUT this is my opinino for what its worth.

I have been riding for 9 years.

Kawa 250
99-R6
03-R6
05-R6
06-R6
08-1098S

I love my R6's what can I say. But I will tell you this right now. You may be level headed and very cautious and know how to test the limits of a car / bike. Thats all well and dandy I'm not assuming anything. I've ridden track for 4+ years religously and have raced for 1 season. I bought my 1098 about 5 months ago but have only ridden it for the first time about 3 weeks ago. I've been out of country. Let me just say, the bike is a BEAST. It weighs the same as my 06 R6 TRACK BIKE, and the power this thing has is not something I would have wanted as a begginner. Im taking this bike ot the track for the first time in a few weeks and Im nervous for the handful of bike Im gonan have to handle and get used too.

600cc sport bikes there days are not baby bikes....they farking bikes can and do fly! They get lighter and lighter and more hp each year. When someone can do laptimes in World Supersport on a 600rr that are within the top 10 lap times for World Super bikes, that is telling you something about these bikes. All and all do and get waht you want, you're going to anyways no matter what anyone on this forum says or thinks. Just letting you know that from ridding the evolution of 600cc motorcycles for nearly 9 years (4 of which are track years, and I run in the advanced / racer group) and finally making my jump to a liter bike class it's way more power to deal with than I had anticipated.

The 2nd day I was on my 1098, i was splitting lanes and tried to dart infront another car, I gave her alitte throttle and the front wheel came up to about 9'oclock positon before I realised what happed right in the middle of traffic. My buddy rides a 999 and rode my bike today and got off shaking his head as he didnt beleive how much more power the 1098 had than his 999. He said "Have fun with that on the track" In a sarcastic tone, lol. The 1098 is not a begginers bike. Flame me if you want, say I dont know how to ride if you want. I dont care. But please think about what you're getting into.

Mikey Cyr-
you cant compare 10+ year old 600's to today's. its night and day different. nothing then can compare to these new middleweights with all the technology on them these days. My R6 amazes me everytime I get on it b/c it teachs me it can do more and more each lap I take on it.
 
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