[Ducless]

When I brake hard during aggressive street riding the front end dives excessively (my .02). I think this will be even worse on track. From what I recall when it was original set up I should start with two turns/clicks on the top of the forks. Below are my settings (bike was intentionally set up soft). Is my memory correct? Any suggestions? I would say I'm probably a step above novice but not ready to run intermediate. My track day will be in novice.

Bike is a 2008 1098s
Front forks
top out measurements 128
Free sag 30
Rider sag 40
compression 29 total, 7 from hard, "" High , 13
Rebound 28 total, 8 from hard, "" High, 13

Rear feels good.

Thanks for the assistance, thoughts.

 

[gunther19820]

Where are you doing the day?

 

[gunther19820]

If it was me I would do my first session or 2, and see what my tire wear is telling me.

Depending on who you are doing the day with, some org's have different vendors at the track. Usually a suspension guy is there

 

[Ducless]

Where are you doing the day?

Blackhawk farms raceway in South Beloit Il. I can't wait!!

 

[182 Racing]

If your forks are diving under braking, perhaps a spring rate adjustment needs to be made. How much do you weigh with all of your gear on? That will make a vast improvment on the "diving" versus a couple of clicks of rebound and compression.

 

[Ducless]

If your forks are diving under braking, perhaps a spring rate adjustment needs to be made. How much do you weigh with all of your gear on? That will make a vast improvment on the "diving" versus a couple of clicks of rebound and compression.

198 fully geared up.

 

[182 Racing]

I don't have my 848evo anymore, but if I remember correctly you may be just heavy for the OEM spring rate. I think at that weight you need a Ohlins .95 spring rate. Someone chime in to verify my data. You are not much lighter then me, and I am currently using .975 rate springs in my oem forks on my 899.

 

[182 Racing]

FWIW, I am using the stock spring rate on my rear shock. This winter I will probably increase to a 1.0 in the forks and get a slightly heavier rate for my shock.

 

[219R]

On my Nichols 28mm offset triples, and 23.5 rake angle, I am using the 9.5 in my Ohlins forks with the latest 25mm valve/shim kit, 10cc less oil than normal,
forks were serviced and set up by Brad Stokes @ Ohlins USA, as well as the TTX rear shock, modified shim and valving with the DucShop linear link and associated rear spring. Love it.

 

[Ducless]

I look into the spring rate. Hopefully they have someone out at the track day to help with suspension set up if needed.

 

[182 Racing]

Springs can be had and installed for fairly cheap and offer a pretty good performance upgrade versus going the aftermarket route. Low cost high value mod IMHO.

 

[rubbish]

Ducless, you will have a lot of fun! Blackhawk is a fun little track, but pretty challenging and physical (very twisty with only 2 short straights), and assuming you're doing the upcoming STT track day there, STT is a great organization to ride with.

Regarding your forks, I agree with 182. It may be that your springs are too soft for your weight and skill level. I don't remember what spring rates the 1098 comes with stock, but I imagine it's the same as what my 1198 had. When I started track days I was at about 220-225 lbs and the forks were fine for me. However, as I got faster and I was braking later and harder, I started bottoming out the forks, so it was time for a spring upgrade (I went 1 size up on the spring rate). At the beginning of this season, I switched to Ohlins (same exact ones as what's on the 1098S) and went up another size yet, and still bottomed out in Turn 1 at Blackhawk, so then I also added a bit more fluid in the forks to reduce the air spring and added a couple of turns of preload. Now it's finally good.

If you need some springs, I have a couple of sets. Can't remember exactly what though, I'd have to look. Pretty sure I have a set of 9.5 N/mm springs (which are good for like a 150 lb guy or lighter) and something else...maybe 10 or 10.5 N/mm

 

[rubbish]

One more thing I forgot to add...if you're going to bottom out in the Novice group, your forks are either WAY too soft, or you're braking way harder than you should.

 

[Shazaam!]

Your rider sag minus free sag is 10 mm so your spring stiffness is correct. Excessive dive under braking can be addressed by adding fork oil level (2–3 mm at a time) to reduce the air spring softness.

The oil height of a fork effectively controls a progressive air spring inside the fork. The less air inside the fork (i.e., more oil), the quicker the air spring will ramp up it's effectiveness and the more powerful it will be at the last part of the travel.

 

[182 Racing]

See, I knew someone smarter would chime in!

 

[Ducless]

Ducless, you will have a lot of fun! Blackhawk is a fun little track, but pretty challenging and physical (very twisty with only 2 short straights), and assuming you're doing the upcoming STT track day there, STT is a great organization to ride with.

Regarding your forks, I agree with 182. It may be that your springs are too soft for your weight and skill level. I don't remember what spring rates the 1098 comes with stock, but I imagine it's the same as what my 1198 had. When I started track days I was at about 220-225 lbs and the forks were fine for me. However, as I got faster and I was braking later and harder, I started bottoming out the forks, so it was time for a spring upgrade (I went 1 size up on the spring rate). At the beginning of this season, I switched to Ohlins (same exact ones as what's on the 1098S) and went up another size yet, and still bottomed out in Turn 1 at Blackhawk, so then I also added a bit more fluid in the forks to reduce the air spring and added a couple of turns of preload. Now it's finally good.

If you need some springs, I have a couple of sets. Can't remember exactly what though, I'd have to look. Pretty sure I have a set of 9.5 N/mm springs (which are good for like a 150 lb guy or lighter) and something else...maybe 10 or 10.5 N/mm

Blackhawk was great. I was starting to get tired by the third twenty minute session, which surprised me; though it was 90 plus degrees out.

What I learned; I have a lot to learn. I didn't figure out till the second session that most of the turns are really mid corner turns :stickpoke. My bike is way more advanced then me, and best of all my wife enjoyed it almost as much as me.

I think RA will be my next track day in August. I'm hooked.

 

[rubbish]

Good to hear you had fun! Getting tired is definitely expected. A lot of people who have never done a track day before don't think much of it, but it takes a lot out of you, and when you add 90+ degree heat, it makes it even worse. Drink lots of water!!!

Not exactly sure what you mean by mid-corner turns though...

By the way, who was the track day organization you rode with? Was it STT? or Motovid? Or Midwest? And did you do the track day school with whoever it was?

You should definitely go to Road America if you get the chance! It's a great track and venue. My favorite for sure out of all the tracks I've been to so far.

 

[rmc777]

Good to hear you had fun! Getting tired is definitely expected. A lot of people who have never done a track day before don't think much of it, but it takes a lot out of you, and when you add 90+ degree heat, it makes it even worse. Drink lots of water!!!

Not exactly sure what you mean by mid-corner turns though...

By the way, who was the track day organization you rode with? Was it STT? or Motovid? Or Midwest? And did you do the track day school with whoever it was?

You should definitely go to Road America if you get the chance! It's a great track and venue. My favorite for sure out of all the tracks I've been to so far.

I find water doesn't hit the spot....energy drinks with plenty of sugar keep me going though out the day.

Mid corner turns.....novices usually turn too early and crab towards the apex before the turn point....in my experience anyway...!! :blind:

 

[rubbish]

I find water doesn't hit the spot....energy drinks with plenty of sugar keep me going though out the day.

Mid corner turns.....novices usually turn too early and crab towards the apex before the turn point....in my experience anyway...!! :blind:

Oh so as "mid-apex" turn...as oppose to early apex or late apex turns? I thought that's maybe what he meant but wasn't sure.

Water is great for hydration (obviously), but I usually will have 1 or 2 Gatorades as well to get those electrolytes!

 

[ASM]

What is a mid-apex turn? If you turn in early you early apex (which will make you run wider on exit) or you turn in late you late apex (which will make you run tight on exit). So...you either hit the apex early, directly, or late...I am not sure how to hit the middle of an apex...

A mix of water and some drink providing you the minerals and electrolytes etc. you are losing is usually the recommendation. Just like rubbish said, the majority of the mix should be water as it hydrates better than anything else. Many energy drinks actually contain a level of caffeine which is kinda counter-productive in regards to hydration.

The biggest key is to start hydrating well before you arrive at the track (2-3 days before) and continue throughout the day. If you are not peeing regularly at the track....you are not drinking enough...

Other than drinking well, take some bananas (potassium against muscle cramps) and some nutrition bars to snack on during the day with you.