Full Exhaust Choices
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943 Posts
I have a Tri so it came with the full Termi system. I have no experience with aftermarket systems but there is a s--tload of info in here if you search the archives. It appears that the Arapkovic (sic) set up is pretty popular. As far as performance goes I don't feel that there's a noticeable diff between any of the "open" systems as long as your engine is well tuned. Waaaay lots of power anywhere. And the weight issue is kind of nitpicking for the same reason. Lay off the whoppers and fries for a week and you'd save more gross weight than any pipe would. Which boils it down to price, appearance and sound. $$$ is up to you. Ditto the looks. So the only real variable you need to consider is the song.
You'll get a ton of replies so just be patient. If you ask it they will come.
You'll get a ton of replies so just be patient. If you ask it they will come.
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1,111 Posts
If you want a no hassle, bolt on and go full system, then go with the Termi's. It comes complete with the much needed race ECU which is what you need if you want your bike to run without a glitch. In doing so, you can also opt for a power commander, and fine tune it even further...
All the other full systems on the market (well at least as of 1/2008) do not supply you with any sort of ECU, so you may run into running or stalling problems. Some have provisions for your OEM O2 sensors, which you must use if you have a stock ECU, while others don't, which means you'll be pulling codes left and right, not to mention your service engine soon light will remain on.
If you're thinking about setting up a power commander with the stock ECU, you'll be disappointed to know, they have yet to come out with one that totally eliminates or bypasses the OEM O2 sensors, which basically means you can't do anything to it terms of fine tunning under 19% throttle and below 5250rpm (which is where most of the "problems" occur like stalling) when used with the stock ECU.
The ONLY way you can get away with running a full system like that of the Akra, is to get a Ducati Race ECU and then hook up a Power Commander to it. Since the race ECU does not use O2 sensors, you don't have to worry about the Power Commanders fine tunning issues as you have with the stock ECU.
The drawback to all this is the fact that the Race ECU will set you back around $800-$1000 from the dealer and an extra $250-$300 for the Power Commander (+ extra for dyno tuning) ON TOP of the full system price...
So in example an Akra system with a Ducati Race ECU and a Power Commander may cost you over $3750 not including dyno tunning and install.
Just something to think about...
All the other full systems on the market (well at least as of 1/2008) do not supply you with any sort of ECU, so you may run into running or stalling problems. Some have provisions for your OEM O2 sensors, which you must use if you have a stock ECU, while others don't, which means you'll be pulling codes left and right, not to mention your service engine soon light will remain on.
If you're thinking about setting up a power commander with the stock ECU, you'll be disappointed to know, they have yet to come out with one that totally eliminates or bypasses the OEM O2 sensors, which basically means you can't do anything to it terms of fine tunning under 19% throttle and below 5250rpm (which is where most of the "problems" occur like stalling) when used with the stock ECU.
The ONLY way you can get away with running a full system like that of the Akra, is to get a Ducati Race ECU and then hook up a Power Commander to it. Since the race ECU does not use O2 sensors, you don't have to worry about the Power Commanders fine tunning issues as you have with the stock ECU.
The drawback to all this is the fact that the Race ECU will set you back around $800-$1000 from the dealer and an extra $250-$300 for the Power Commander (+ extra for dyno tuning) ON TOP of the full system price...
So in example an Akra system with a Ducati Race ECU and a Power Commander may cost you over $3750 not including dyno tunning and install.
Just something to think about...
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164 Posts
Gmoto,
I was about to go with the Akra, since I have had them on my I4's, but I went with some advice on this forum and got the full Termi's, dealer installed prior to me picking the bike up. I was in the showroom and started my bike with stock pipes, but when I rode the bike home with the Termi's, my helmet didn't fit!!! I'm very happy, although I hate having to wait to do the break in, as the snow is killing my riding time this year. Even at break in RPMs and speeds, they sound like GREAT.
I was about to go with the Akra, since I have had them on my I4's, but I went with some advice on this forum and got the full Termi's, dealer installed prior to me picking the bike up. I was in the showroom and started my bike with stock pipes, but when I rode the bike home with the Termi's, my helmet didn't fit!!! I'm very happy, although I hate having to wait to do the break in, as the snow is killing my riding time this year. Even at break in RPMs and speeds, they sound like GREAT.
Just came from the dealer and they make it seem like the termi system is the only system even worth getting, is this because termi is ducati? How much would a power commander cost if I went with a leo vinci system (whis is about 1500 but doesnt have an ecu)
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2,469 Posts
Cloudrider,cloudrider said:
Sorry if I'm a bit skeptical but, 160RWHP! Thats the highest number I've seen, 150ish is common with a full system but 160, that's pretty damn good. do you have the Dyno graphs to post? Is that with the PCIII piggy backed to the Termi ECU?
Can't you buy the Nemisis or Rapid Bike module and run any exhaust you want?
I understood that the Nemisis controller allowed for much more tuning ability (asuming you have an experienced Nemisis dealer) than any other tuner out now, and it keeps the O2 sensor as well.
I understood that the Nemisis controller allowed for much more tuning ability (asuming you have an experienced Nemisis dealer) than any other tuner out now, and it keeps the O2 sensor as well.
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943 Posts
Ten six,
That 160 hp figure is right from the dyno graphs of the mapping Kyle did. He mapped the cyls individually. I can not personally vouch for the graphs, but I believe Dan to be a reliable guy. Also the figure was on his bike and although they're the identical setup they're not necessarily exactly the same. Lastly, and I'm sure you know this, there are dynos and there are dynos. Aside from that it is pretty impressive, no? Yes it's with the PC in line with the ECU leads to the injectors.
I'll see if I can't get that sheet off the other forum and post it here.
As for the Nemisis. For me that thing does waaay too much and it'd drive me nuts with it's tweakability. Assuming I learned how to do all it's capable of. I much prefer something simple like the PC with only it's one variable ability to play with the maps. When you get into the Nemesis class of electronics I think unless you're very good and you have a Dyno at your beck and call it would be pretty difficult to tell one tweak from another.
That 160 hp figure is right from the dyno graphs of the mapping Kyle did. He mapped the cyls individually. I can not personally vouch for the graphs, but I believe Dan to be a reliable guy. Also the figure was on his bike and although they're the identical setup they're not necessarily exactly the same. Lastly, and I'm sure you know this, there are dynos and there are dynos. Aside from that it is pretty impressive, no? Yes it's with the PC in line with the ECU leads to the injectors.
I'll see if I can't get that sheet off the other forum and post it here.
As for the Nemisis. For me that thing does waaay too much and it'd drive me nuts with it's tweakability. Assuming I learned how to do all it's capable of. I much prefer something simple like the PC with only it's one variable ability to play with the maps. When you get into the Nemesis class of electronics I think unless you're very good and you have a Dyno at your beck and call it would be pretty difficult to tell one tweak from another.
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2,469 Posts
cloudrider said:
Wow, I'm impressed. The reason for the HP increase is obvious, look at that flat ass A/F ratio...Nice! I'm assuming the red line is Termi w/ECU and the blue line is with the Dan Kyle PCIII added? I'm definitely down for one of his PC's, do you have his link and can we download maps directly from his site?
A half hour later....
Ok, I just found his site and it sucks, I'm not even seeing a way to make a purchase from the site. I've also found on other forums where he's using VP U-4 on his Dyno runs and not pump gas.
I had hoped for a ton of replies on my exhaust question (another thread) but got none.cloudrider said:
It was my first post but I did not introduce myself...sorry if I got the protocol wrong. I don't want to hyjack this thread but hello from the Isle of Man (just purchased 1098)
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Ten-6,
You can email him at [email protected] or call him at 1 831 394 1330.
He's a really nice guy and has a pedigree as long as my arm. Knows his stuff and has forgotten more than I'll ever learn. You can also check him out at 1098-forum.com. He's a sponsor on that site and has a site under sponsors or dealers or something like that.
By the way he claims that graph was done with pump gas.
You can email him at [email protected] or call him at 1 831 394 1330.
He's a really nice guy and has a pedigree as long as my arm. Knows his stuff and has forgotten more than I'll ever learn. You can also check him out at 1098-forum.com. He's a sponsor on that site and has a site under sponsors or dealers or something like that.
By the way he claims that graph was done with pump gas.
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