[randomtask]

So rough day at the track. Accelerating hard out of the penultimate turn - short straight before the final turn - and I get some massive headshake. There was no noticeable wheelie and/or crossed up landing (I'll post the video when I get home). Anyway when it stops I'm headed off into the grass and end up losing the front in the outfield. Bike slides on the left side for a little bit and jacks up my left rearset. I get back to the pits and throw on my spare and the gearbox is stuck in neutral. The lever moves what seems to be full throw with a little bit of resistance but I can't select first or second.

So two issues:
1) anyone else have big headshake like this with the stock 1098 steering damper? Is it inadequate?
2) more importantly, how bad do you think my gearbox is? Would you fix it yourself or take it to the *gasp* dealer? I'm pretty mechanically inclined, installed a slipper on my own, swapped Showa forks for Ohlins cartridges, full Termi, swingarm swap, etc.

I should add that I suspect some other worn component of the gearbox since it's a 2007, and I've had a several instances lately where I'm trying to downshift from 6th on a long straight and the gearbox goes into a false neutral. Multiple stabs at the shift lever with the clutch pulled in and rev matching on the throttle and eventually it drops into 5th. I turned on the pull direction of my QS to help with those downshifts and it worked for the most part. Only had that 6th gear false neutral once since.

Background: 20k miles on the stock motor and gearbox. The first 10k or so was primarily canyons. The last ~10k was a mix of track and canyon. And only just installed a quickshifter this year, three track days ago.

 

[randomtask]

 

[randomtask]

So looking at the service manual, I'd need at least 2 special Ducati tools and would likely need to drop the engine/split the cases. One dealer is saying $118/hr....considering the tools I'd need is it cost effective to do it myself or am I biting off more than I can chew?

 

[andrewinbriz]

If it were me, I'd do it myself. Study what is involved, become absolutely certain about what I have to do. But I like learning new things, and have a couple of friends who are very mechanically experienced, should I run into trouble. The tools I'd just buy, but maybe you could borrow them.
I say do it myself, because I became freakin sick of paying a guy top dollar to do a shit job. If the guy who is going to do the job is competent, and you trust him and think he won't just lie to cover up an error of his, and you don't want to learn, pay him by all means.

 

[Rusty Helmholtz]

Chances are, you don't need a complete tear down. Under the left case cover there is an adjustment for the alignment and throw of your shift mechanism. It is likely knocked out of position as it is only held in place by a bolt pinching down on the adjustment slot. You'll need some allen keys or sockets, a rear stand, some rtv sealant and some coolant. There are some articles already on the site with some pics if you search. Most times people get stuck in gear, bit stuck in neutral can also happen. Its a good place to start before you go into a complete tear down, sidelining your bike for months if you have to wait for parts or tools from ducati.

 

[randomtask]

Ok, but can I get that cover off without Ducati's special tool?

 

[Rusty Helmholtz]

in a word..... yes

There is a cheap cover removal press from SSR if you really want a tool to make live easier/justify spending money

 

[Tuned]

These bikes stock have a lot of geometry/chassis issues which rear their ugly heads all the time. What you ran into was the bike squatting too much, this unloaded the front on corner exit and because the initial part of the fork stroke is soft, it had no traction at first. You got traction the moment you target fixated onto the grass. The non-adjustable stock damper doesn't help much.

You need to pull both engine covers off and check the status of your puller claw AND spring loaded retaining roller. The claw is on the left side and the retaining roller is on the right side.

 

[randomtask]

Well I don't have stock suspension. I have the Corsa Dynamics 30mm offset triples, Ohlins cartridges up front and TTX GP in the rear, both sprung for my weight and setup with my personalized settings from Dan Kyle. The only changes I made were increasing preload up front because I was using full travel and didn't want to bottom out the forks.

Though I do agree the headshake came from an unloaded front. But I didn't target fixate on the grass - you can see the last shake was to the left and I tried to hit the front brake and steer right as soon as I got control back (I was looking at my turn-in point hoping I could still slow down in time). I was just too close to the edge and ran out of room.

Anyway I found a few other threads about gearbox issues and ordered both parts you mentioned, Tye: the "newer" claw/spring from the service bulletin for the left, and a Factory Pro Shift Kit for the right.

Thanks everyone for the help. I'm going to replace/upgrade those parts and hopefully that fixes it. If not, I may be dropping her off at the dealer. If the problem is in the main tranny itself I don't have the time to drop/split the engine to get at it. I'm hoping to get back on track this season, not next!

 

[Tuned]

Yea, even if you have the right components, the bike is clearly not setup properly.

If you wanna learn more about it, here is a great technical document that should fill you in on the details. http://www.madducracing.com/suspension/1098 geometry guide.txt

When properly setup, there shouldn't be any head shake under throttle, just "wobble".

Ohh and I just want you to examine the bits, if they look OK then there is probably something else wrong. The claw should be able to shift with the bike stopped no problem at all even if there is a problem with it. Looking at it whilst attempting to shift, will fill you in on if it's working properly or not.

 

[jwm2k3]

Stock rear suspension link??

Its a progressive link, so the more throttle, the more squat. And in your case here, more squat, more unloaded front suspension....tank slapper....crash.

My 848 also has the stock rear link (for now) and coming out of turn 7 at my local track, I also get a very light front end and its a transition from a left turn (7) to a right turn (8) and if im not up over the tank when I make the flop from left to right, I shit my own pants....its a heavy throttle section and its quite fast for this particular track. I have not had the tank slapper like in your video, but Ive seen others have it at that spot.

I lean way over the tank, keep that bitch in her place....

 

[randomtask]

Stock rear suspension link??

Its a progressive link, so the more throttle, the more squat. And in your case here, more squat, more unloaded front suspension....tank slapper....crash.

My 848 also has the stock rear link (for now) and coming out of turn 7 at my local track, I also get a very light front end and its a transition from a left turn (7) to a right turn (8) and if im not up over the tank when I make the flop from left to right, I shit my own pants....its a heavy throttle section and its quite fast for this particular track. I have not had the tank slapper like in your video, but Ive seen others have it at that spot.

I lean way over the tank, keep that bitch in her place....

Yep, stock link. That was the first time I've had a slapper anywhere on that track. Coming out of turn four is a fast downhill leading to a sweeping turn 5 and I'd definitely get light off that hill. But yeah, heavy over the tank and I only get an occasional light "wobble" from the front. Never been an issue. The front straight is nearly 3/4mi coming off a slow turn 10 (right where I went down) and also had a few small wheelies there if I'm not 100% over the front. But again I've never had more than a wobble from the front.

I know the link is progressive and it's been on the upgrade list. So which would you guys do first? Track link or steering damper? I didn't think I was fast enough before to warrant either. But it seems I'm getting there. My local track doesn't run the traditional A-B-C groups so it's tough to compare. Back in Cali I was a mid-pack B group rider. Here I'd say I'm top 3rd. I think the guys who pass me are mostly MRA racers and a couple plain fast guys (one guy kills me on a Multi!). The Supertwins GTO lap record is a 1:39 and the majority of faster classes are around 1:32. My fastest lap was a 1:48.

I've never compared lap times before so I don't know how fast is fast. Am I to the point where I'm pushing the limits of those deficient components? I don't plan on competing/racing. I just love track days and am only interested in becoming a better rider which could obviously lead to faster lap times.

 

[Tuned]

I don't feel the stock link is the only problem, if you had the right ride height and the preload/damping was setup right, it would have been fine. At that moment you just loaded up the rear more then you normally do for some reason. If you read the linked document I posted, it will fill you in on all the details so this thread doesn't side track. Your only real problem now is the gearbox, everything else is just reading that document.

 

[Agr0]

These bikes stock have a lot of geometry/chassis issues which rear their ugly heads all the time. What you ran into was the bike squatting too much, this unloaded the front on corner exit and because the initial part of the fork stroke is soft, it had no traction at first. You got traction the moment you target fixated onto the grass. The non-adjustable stock damper doesn't help much.

You need to pull both engine covers off and check the status of your puller claw AND spring loaded retaining roller. The claw is on the left side and the retaining roller is on the right side.

I was thinking this right away, and read down.. lower... then saw your post.

I had the same issue with rear squat and head shake. I ended up working with a suspension guy and we adjusted my TTX rear and it made an insane difference, no more shake on acceleration out of a turn.

 

[randomtask]

Was that with the stock link?

 

[randomtask]

So turns out my selector claw return spring was broken into three pieces. Hopefully that also explains the metal shavings I found in the oil. Found more shavings stuck to the alternator magnets too.

 

[randomtask]

Upon closer inspection, I found some damage to one of my timing gears:


Looks like it's just the few teeth showing. Do I have to replace this gear?

Also, my selector claw keeps getting hung up on the lip of the selector drum. Is there away to adjust this? I've gotten the claw aligned and most gears work fine, but every couple gears it hangs up.

 

[vfrman]

I'd replace it.

 

[randomtask]

You're right. Found the service bulletin for the gear selector kit: "Check the condition of the timing layshaft gear. Should it be damaged due to contact with the spring, change it." There goes another $345...

 

[Tchase]

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