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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Newbe. Bought my bike from a dealer recently, (local trade in), timing belts haven't been changed for 4 years so I decided to do it myself. I replaced the belts and set the correct tension using a guitar tuner app, I also changed the coolant and fitted a open clutch cover with stainless springs etc. On start up the engine was very noisy and I assumed it was the open clutch cover and spring kit. I refitted the OEM cover and springs but still the engine has a tapping noise, hiccups on idle and drives rough (around my parking lot) and will stall in 1st gear. The only problem I had with the belts change was the top right cam pulley (on the vertical) that spun around when I removed the old belt, but I had marked them as per the video on YouTube, so I just turned it till everything lined up as before.
Any help would be appreciated as the bike ran perfect before I touched it. :(
 

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Did you turn the cam back the opposite direction of the way it spun? Its a different noise then the typical dry clutch noise before you disassembled it? Can you make a video of the noise its making?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes I think I did turn it back in the opposite direction, but what if I didn't? It was hard to move unlike his on the video. I cannot start the bike right now as I have ordered fuel quick connects, one has broken and had a gas leaking everywhere when I tried to put the gas tank/seat back on after triple-checking the cam belts. But I will just as soon as they come in. The noise is much louder than before, I did remove the clutch plate/rod and cleaned it along with the slave. Could the cam be in the wrong position, and if so can I turn it back to fix it or is the damage already done?
 

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How did you mark the cam's? Did you mark them on the cases or on the old belt?

You can't turn the cam over when the piston is at TDC, so you've gotta be careful with that. But if you can turn the cam's freely, then it's probably ok. It was probably just one tooth off, which if I recall is 15 degree's, which is a lot.

Turn the motor over by hand after you do this work, that's a good way to make sure there isn't any interference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes I did mark the cams and the belts prior to removing them and I had a hard time turning that right cam back to match up the marks when installing the new belt. I also did turn the motor over by hand and heard no abnormal noises (the service manager at the dealer I bought it from made sure I knew to do that). I have ordered the same oil and clutch fluid as the dealer was using on the bike (it has 8700 miles on it) and I am going to bleed the clutch to see if that helps. In the meantime would removing the cam cover and taking and posting photos (at TDC) help any? Thanks.
 

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Ok, but did you mark the cam's to the cases or did you mark the cam's to the belts. The mark you make should be from cam pulley to the cases, not the belts. I'm just trying to figure out how the timing is off and it must be part of the process you used to do this.

You can take a picture if you want, maybe we can see something… worth the shot! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I marked the cams to the belts. I counted the teeth just like the video, I don't think the left cam moved, just the right one flipped. The cam holding tool did not work. After searching the web I managed to find clear photos of a belt replacement/valve adjustment so I will take the covers off and see if the vert cams match those at TDC then take photos. If not I guess I will have to take the head cover off and look for damage (if I can see any). Thanks.
 

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If the cam's rotate 360 degree's and you can feel the valve opening, you won't be able to see any damage by removing the valve cover.

That intake cam will always turn like that because it's 90 degree's off from the horizontal cylinder at it's compression stroke TDC.

I've never use the belt labeling method because it leaves too much room for very minor errors. I really wish that video didn't exist, too many people screw up their engine re-builds because of that method in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes I know what you are saying. I took some photos of my cam positions at TDC and I believe, after looking at a still of the video and other photosI found, that I am 1 tooth too far to the right.
Am I screwed?
 

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I assume the marks don't line up with the belts because these pix are taken after you started it.

Everything looks OK… Those little "T" marks at the end of the cam, should have the end of the T facing towards the valve cover gasket, like the referenced youtube video of the horizontal cylinder. Those are the zero degree point of the cam. So you can always fall back on them, if you messed something up. Simply turn the engine to TDC horizontal, insure it's actually at TDC by removing the spark plug and putting a long screw driver down into the hole to press against the piston. TDC is the moment where the piston is at it's highest position before it starts back down again. Then rotate the engine 90 degree's to test the vertical. They will be off by a tiny bit, as Ducati doesn't tune them perfect from the factory so 5 deg or something, that's pretty normal. But this is a good test to insure the timing is close, using TDC and the T markings as a rough reference.
 

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Might I suggest in the future just to make one change at a time (ie. timing belts, confirm to issue, clutch cover/springs, confirm no issue). It just makes the diagnostic process easier when something isnt right.

When were the valve tolerances last checked? You mentioned that the cam wasnt easy to turn by hand and another member said a few posts later it should be easy to turn. Maybe there's some binding in the valve train?

Im looking forward to hearing the resolution to this problem. Was thinking of trying my belts myself in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well, after checking out all the photos (and getting 4 second opinions), I figured that I was 1 tooth out on my vertical cylinder timing. Both the exhaust and intake cams needed to be turned 1 tooth to the left (their spacing was correct as I had marked the cam and the belt). I have since marked the cams to the cylinder head for next time. I had read that you can run the bike without the clutch plates installed so I did that and the (valve) noise that worried me has gone. I am in the process of bleeding the clutch system, the push rod was stuck to the pressure plate and I have cleaned out the master cylinder and will re-install the stainless springs/cover etc I had bought after the pressure plate painting is complete. I am hoping that after I install the clutch and with the freshly bled system the bike will behave as it did before, though I am going to order new chain, front sprocket and a larger rear sprocket to make it more friendly around town.
As to the cams not moving freely, when the horizontal cylinder is in the TDC position the vertical exhaust cam is easy to move but the intake sprung pressure make it difficult to turn back once it has sprung free of the belt. (Something that wouldn't have been a problem if the cam holder I had brought fit the dang thing!). I saw (while I was at the dealer) a belt replacement being done and it took hardly any time at all, providing you have the correct tools, of course. It's been a learning experience, just like life should be. The previous owner had all the service done at the same dealer and I have all the documentation, the valves were checked at 6k miles and has no other service except oil changes, this bike was one of 4 (Ducati only) he owned, he traded it with another after they fell into each other in his garage and bought another Ducati, there was a crack in the right fairing that he had cut away with rotary tool but that is another project! Other than that the bike is in prefect condition. I am a service engineer working on copiers/folder Inserters and lots of other machines, so I am used to dealing with problems like this, but of course, we have all the correct tools that are required to work on them! I will post my results once I have completed everything (just waiting on a crush washer and O ring that wasn't shipped with the oil filter.
 

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FWIW, the push rod was not 'stuck' in the pressure plate, they are a press 'interference' fit. meant to be that way.

I would not consider this a learing experience but a really lucky one that you didn't bend 8 valves when the cams moved and then you started it.

I believe that would generally be a common outcome especially when you talked about valve train noise.


good luck it it.

PS.. I think i have changed the sump washer once in 75 000 km with oil changes every 2 500 km.
 
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