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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Edit: Just now realizing that I BUTCHERED the spelling of "Impeller" didn't I? Wow. =)

So my quick situation is this:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?res...authkey=!AG1_y2H9mZrmL7U&v=3&ithint=photo,jpg

(If the link doesn't work please tell me)

This piece snapped off (and was recovered) and it looks like I have to replace the shaft (along with the water pump bearings and POSSIBLY sprag). After perusing the service manual it looks like the block has to be split to access and install it. My question is: With the help of someone quite mechanically inclined, exactly how big of a pain in the ass is this especially since I just had belts and valves serviced. Does everything need to be disassembled as stated in the manual or are some things not required to be completely stripped down for this? Any guesstimates on shop time/costs?

I have an idea of how it happened (may or may not include me accidentally trying to start it after I accidentally left it out in the cold when it was filled with just water and Water Wetter) but I think fixing it more important right now. =|

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I already posted a reply on the other thread in How-Tos.
Oh shoot sorry.

This is a big drama, and I am sorry to have to tell you that there is no easy way around it.

The full dismantle/rebuild this will require is no small task. I rebuilt my similar model last year, and perhaps a peruse of my thread 'Pat's Engine Overhaul' will give you a better idea of what it entails.

The only parts you will be able to leave undisturbed are the cylinder heads, but you should be able to leave the gearbox intact if you separate the case halves separately.

And check out the prices of the (German manufactured) head gaskets, as they are a shocker.

I had confidence doing this job myself as I have owned and worked on Ducatis since 1974, and even though I wasn't familiar with the internals of this specific model, it is only a more-complex evolution of previous models.

Paying a mechanic to do this for you will be expensive. The only way to offset that cost would be to carry out improvements while you are at it.

Doing it yourself, without experience, is risky. You will learn a lot, but you kinda need to know all that before you start.

Sorry to sound negative, but I am just giving you a realistic opinion based on experience.

Very sad that this happened. It is not a common weakness. I have only ever encountered this when assembly has been careless, not realising the water pump coupling needs to be lined up.

I hope you find your way through this calamity.

:eek:
Nice and thanks for info! Yeah the odd thing is that it happened at the END of a track day, very last session. Only thing I can figure is it may have weakened in my frozen-starting-stupidity and then just snapped under stress.

A few things I have going for me is space, accessibility to almost all common tools I could need, and time. I'm guessing a service center is going to run in the thousands at this point so why not give it a shot especially since it's a track only bike? (Hubris) :D

I think I'll try and make a list of the consumables and special tools I need and go from there.
 

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Honestly, without the appropriate tools, you won't be able to accomplish this task.

It's easy with the right tools, but it's almost impossible without them.

My suggestion is to take it somewhere and have it done. If you can pull the engine out, drain the oil, remove the clutch and drop the engine off at a Ducati shop, it may not be that expensive. If you were so inclined, you could also remove the heads first before dropping it off, that will save even more money. Whilst your in there, might as well replace the big end rod bearings and crank bearings, they aren't expensive and this way you're ready to go for another 20k+ miles.

Make sure you buy a new shaft, don't skimp on a used one. Also make sure whoever does the work, isn't a hack and has the right tools.

With all that said… I can recommend another course of action that maybe too "shade tree" for some people, but I've done it in a pinch. The right side engine case will come off a lot easier then the left side. If you can get the main gear pulled off the crank (which isn't an expensive tool) and make a layshaft timing gear removal tool, you could spilt the cases on the right side and leave the flywheel on. Then lock down the shaft and twist that nut right off the shaft. Pop the old shaft out, push the new shaft in and throw it all back together. If you rest the engine so it's flat when doing this and lock it down so it doesn't move, nothing will go "boing" because all of those parts are actually in the left side of the case.

So can you just get help and use that "shade tree" version? Yep, it's absolutely worth the shot because you've got nothing to loose. Right now the engine is worthless without a water pump actuator.

Hope that makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Honestly, without the appropriate tools, you won't be able to accomplish this task.

It's easy with the right tools, but it's almost impossible without them.

My suggestion is to take it somewhere and have it done. If you can pull the engine out, drain the oil, remove the clutch and drop the engine off at a Ducati shop, it may not be that expensive. If you were so inclined, you could also remove the heads first before dropping it off, that will save even more money. Whilst your in there, might as well replace the big end rod bearings and crank bearings, they aren't expensive and this way you're ready to go for another 20k+ miles.

Make sure you buy a new shaft, don't skimp on a used one. Also make sure whoever does the work, isn't a hack and has the right tools.

With all that said… I can recommend another course of action that maybe too "shade tree" for some people, but I've done it in a pinch. The right side engine case will come off a lot easier then the left side. If you can get the main gear pulled off the crank (which isn't an expensive tool) and make a layshaft timing gear removal tool, you could spilt the cases on the right side and leave the flywheel on. Then lock down the shaft and twist that nut right off the shaft. Pop the old shaft out, push the new shaft in and throw it all back together. If you rest the engine so it's flat when doing this and lock it down so it doesn't move, nothing will go "boing" because all of those parts are actually in the left side of the case.

So can you just get help and use that "shade tree" version? Yep, it's absolutely worth the shot because you've got nothing to loose. Right now the engine is worthless without a water pump actuator.

Hope that makes sense.
Coincidentally your "hack" is what we were wondering about while looking up videos and going through the service manual. Were concerned about timing as well but technically it seems like if nothing moves then nothing changes.

On another forum someone suggested possibly "heat sleeving" a mating surface onto the shaft since it's just turning the water pump.

Hooo boy... this could get interesting. :) :D

Worst case at this point I sent it off to possibly Ducshop or similar and have it done right with a few upgrades for longevity and just sit out for a year.
 

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Coincidentally your "hack" is what we were wondering about while looking up videos and going through the service manual. Were concerned about timing as well but technically it seems like if nothing moves then nothing changes.
Honestly, it's not that difficult. The only thing to be worried about is re-aligment of the timing gear with the crank. But if you mark it properly, then it's no big deal. Simply spin the nut off the shaft, hold the gear in place, push the new shaft in and spin the nut back on. The woodruff key will hold the gear in place when disassembling and re-assembling. I mean, it's pretty simple. Plus as I pointed out earlier, if you remove the right side engine case, nothing goes boing… which is nice.

On another forum someone suggested possibly "heat sleeving" a mating surface onto the shaft since it's just turning the water pump.
Theoretically that may work as well.

I'm not a welder, I don't know anything about welding, but I don't quite understand why you can't arc weld that bit back on again. It's just a piece of steel. :shrug:

Worst case at this point I sent it off to possibly Ducshop or similar and have it done right with a few upgrades for longevity and just sit out for a year.
That would cost $3k just in labor and honestly, if you somehow mess it up when in pieces, it may cost less money for them to re-assemble if everything was nicely packaged.

Anyway, I have faith! It's not rocket science.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Honestly, it's not that difficult.... It's not rocket science.
Hhahaha! I appreciate the confidence and help! My only concern with welding that piece back on is it not being balanced or mated to the impeller shaft properly and potentially cause more problems. Since we have access to a lathe and whatnot, I think heat/cold pressing a sleeve on there, for now, is the best option.

Ducshop'esque build is a pipe dream and I have to start asking myself if it's worth it for what's essentially toy I play with ... that can kill me. :) :D
 
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