[Buhgaboo]

It's always been fussy if I stall it about starting back up...but now if I shut it off it won't start until the temp drops below 188°F...it also doesn't like to start on the first instance either but always the second...51k miles I have pulled a plug and it showed no indication that something is wrong, cleaned it and still persists...swapped coils...still won't start when hot...any ideas before I throw the parts canon at it?...the starter cranks just fine...it cranks...engine putters...doesnt fire up...the fumes are nauseous...I wait

 

[bowermad]

Do you get any check engine light? I will get a check engine when my bike hits really high temp 216+. It has never had any problem restarting but won’t have the check engine disappear until I cycle the ignition on and off.

Heat can do weird things to a bike. You run an after market exhaust and ECU, or just exhaust? Have you tried swapping it back to stock to see if it makes a difference?

 

[Buhgaboo]

Well..
Parts canon misfired...changed the timing sensor out but nothing changed...but in surgery I got a good look at the intake valves...problem is probably more serious than a part swap...this will be the second time in as many mileage that I'll be tearing into the engine for the same problem...I predict that I'm going to drop another valve in the coming days/weeks

Just installed the upMap running Termis...hard start was a problem since forever but the hard start has escalated since the exhaust install...now it's like 5 min cool down compared to 30-45sec
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/BuhgaBOO/Mobile Uploads/IMG_20180728_125215_zpso3ggtd9w.jpg

 

[Buhgaboo]

Just an update...won't start hot...replaced entire air box assembly...still won't start hot...ordered new plug wires, replaced the vertical and saw some improvement but not sold that this will do it...this leaves plugs (4k miles old) starter(cranks just fine) battery (51k miles on it ..it feels tired but still cranks really well) and solenoid ( if it's in the battery box it should be isolated well enough from the heat)... problem may well be carbon build up related...bought a can of sea foam ..it's showing promise... scheduled to tear into valves for a 9k mile check in 4k more miles...but after 200 miles I'm optimistic...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/BuhgaBOO/IMG_20180801_222536_02_zpssjvzsvpw.jpg

 

[Buhgaboo]

...not the temp sensor either...just swapped it...

 

[Toneinaus]

Mate this is intriguing watching this thread unfold, I applaud your dive in and give it a go approach. I have never had starting issues with mine thank god, it could be so many things. Best of luck with it.��

 

[DannyD.]

+1 here. I know it`s not fun for you but seriously you are very meticulous...

 

[Buhgaboo]

FIXED IT...

Do you get any check engine light? I will get a check engine when my bike hits really high temp 216+. It has never had any problem restarting but won’t have the check engine disappear until I cycle the ignition on and off.

Heat can do weird things to a bike. You run an after market exhaust and ECU, or just exhaust? Have you tried swapping it back to stock to see if it makes a difference?

Your check engine light coming on at 216 is probably fan related...either it's disconnected or faulty....tripped it once myself forgetting to hook it back up...

The hot start was always present but lasted less than a minute...once I installed the Termis it got really bad around 5 min or however long it took to get down to 188°f.... installed the upMap hoping it was fueling but nothing changed...I never did swap the stock exhaust back in but it did get me thinking...the upMap was race only...no flapper or canister needed in that scenario...I've disconnected the evap can in the past and it did nothing...but the flapper was always attached...I disconnected it and it was night and day...it's fixed...and given all the things I've tried in the past that flapper could be very well the catalyst to all my problems...cruising around sub 4k rpm with it closed getting great mileage but just piling on the gunk...the fact that it happened with two completely different heads multiple times at nearly the same interval has me nearly convinced...I'm contemplating walnut blasting the valves after the seafoam does it's thing and see how they look after another 26k miles

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/BuhgaBOO/download_20180803_203923_zpsoqyeyuqz.gif

 

[chrisPKNY]

Hi there Buhgaboo.

I'm wondering if your fix is still working.

I am having the same issue you had. I have a 2015 Monster 821. Termis with upmap (race). I can't get this thing restarted when hot. It's to the point where it won't restart until it cools down to 150ish degrees.

I bought the extended Ducati warranty (thank god) and had it in the shop for 7 weeks, that's right, 7 weeks!!! They said they needed to do a bunch of tests because they couldn't figure out the problem. I took the bike back and decided that I would bring it back in the winter. It's so frustrating.

What's the best way to test just to see if it's the flapper. Disconnect the cable? Disconnect the power to the servo? Also, where can I find servo and its connector?

Thank you so much, your post gives me hope!!!

CR

 

[Buhgaboo]

The problem I felt was resolved...focusing instead on the valve issue...but the valves are clean and the problem of hot starts came back...and it's not always consistent...I've filled up for gas and had to wait...stalled at a light and had to wait...these are more or less the times I've noticed it...I generally avoid situations that would require starting immediately after shutting it down so in a sense I've just adapted to it...but now I can rule out sloppy valves and interest has spiked...loads to think on now...valves are still clean....that's great news which also means it's not part of the problem...the plug on the other hand does appear to be slightly carbon/oil fouled...running rich perhaps...burning to much oil? Pulling up to much oil in engine braking? To low an rpm cruising doesn't get the plug hot enough to burn it off? To much overlap in the cams? Are my adjustments in shims actually regarding the cams too much? Why only when it's hot?

 

[Brendar]

The problem I felt was resolved...focusing instead on the valve issue...but the valves are clean and the problem of hot starts came back...and it's not always consistent...I've filled up for gas and had to wait...stalled at a light and had to wait...these are more or less the times I've noticed it...I generally avoid situations that would require starting immediately after shutting it down so in a sense I've just adapted to it...but now I can rule out sloppy valves and interest has spiked...loads to think on now...valves are still clean....that's great news which also means it's not part of the problem...the plug on the other hand does appear to be slightly carbon/oil fouled...running rich perhaps...burning to much oil? Pulling up to much oil in engine braking? To low an rpm cruising doesn't get the plug hot enough to burn it off? To much overlap in the cams? Are my adjustments in shims actually regarding the cams too much? Why only when it's hot?

I’m having the same “hot start” issues on my 2016 monster 821. Ended up blowing the motor then I slapped another one in there and it still has the same issue??
Any update with fixing it?

 

[Buhgaboo]

I’m having the same “hot start” issues on my 2016 monster 821. Ended up blowing the motor then I slapped another one in there and it still has the same issue??
Any update with fixing it?

I've got a few theories still to try...leaning heavily toward the valve adjustment... specifically the values...just need some time to do the adjustment.... probably in the coming weeks...but will definitely post what I find

Nothing I have tried has worked

 

[219R]

I've got a few theories still to try...leaning heavily toward the valve adjustment... specifically the values...just need some time to do the adjustment.... probably in the coming weeks...but will definitely post what I find

Nothing I have tried has worked

As a suggestion, double check the battery voltage is right where it should be, @ cold start and @ hot start.
My 1098R was kinda moody about starting on cool mornings. Always used a battery tender to keep the voltage right. Seems these twins like to turn over quickly, with no, or very little throttle to get started.
Could be as simple as that, mine always was...

 

[Buhgaboo]

As a suggestion, double check the battery voltage is right where it should be, @ cold start and @ hot start.
My 1098R was kinda moody about starting on cool mornings. Always used a battery tender to keep the voltage right. Seems these twins like to turn over quickly, with no, or very little throttle to get started.
Could be as simple as that, mine always was...

That was something I suspected long ago...changed the battery out...nada...recently tried bigger motoelectric wires...same story...nope...she cranks just fine...and I can discern no difference in cranking speed hot/cold...it just does not ignite the mix...my plan was to get the openers to open sooner... currently I've got all of them set at the midpoint...this was value I arrived at by monitoring the carbon buildup...at this range it had the least amount...~.017-.019mm....can cruise comfortably 3400 rpm....my very first adjustment had them closer to .12mm....it ran pretty rough until 3800rpm....but I do recall a really quick start speed....and might also explain my suspicion on the valves....I think Ducati purposely ran two valves closer to the midpoint to improve the low end while still providing good start up when hot....well that's the current theory anyway

 

[219R]

Curious as to why you think the valve timing changed to influence poor starting. Or if you think the valves have been damaged/worn. A quick compression check would indicate the condition of the valves/piston/combustion...

 

[Buhgaboo]

Curious as to why you think the valve timing changed to influence poor starting. Or if you think the valves have been damaged/worn. A quick compression check would indicate the condition of the valves/piston/combustion...

I know the top end to be solid...do leak down tests on the regular...as to the valve timing...frankly, I'm running out of things to replace...so I'm going to try what I believe the motor would have been shipped with...a reset if you will...I vaguely remember having trouble hot starting from new....but I could roll on before the traffic light would change....now...I might as well get out a whistle and some cones for a good 5 minutes....and if I try to start it and don't...i'll have to start the clock all over again...next week is looking like I'll have the time...so fingers crossed...

 

[themonster821]

Hey Buhgaboo,
Having the exact same issue with my monster 821 2014
Always around 210 degrees

Keep wondering if it will ever be resolved

 

[Buhgaboo]

Hey Buhgaboo,
Having the exact same issue with my monster 821 2014
Always around 210 degrees

Keep wondering if it will ever be resolved

I've got something to try this weekend...fingers crossed...it's only a matter of time

 

[Buhgaboo]

Just an update...bikes been apart for weeks...should be together tomorrow...hoping one of the many tweeks resolves the hot start issue...brought all valves back to assembly spec... horizontal cylinder was near the high side of limits on the exhaust side; ran out of shim sizes last adjustment...bought correct ones this iteration...and if your buying from emsducati; a 3.60mm shim will be under 3.60mm but above 3.55mm so plan accordingly...replaced all the valve guide seals... vertical are Ducati brand horizontal are a vw 7mm version...Ducati feel tighter but I'm cooking through them before I need to change the oil so we'll just have to wait and see...plus vw ones are 1/10th the cost...cleaned out the secondary air lines...massive carbon deposit...don't know if it had stopped working or was problematic...but it's clean now... curious to any changes...will let you know.

 

[Buhgaboo]

Still exists...won't start above 186...was thinking heat soak but this was just sitting at idle until it gets to temp... doubtful anything really got that hot...but it's definitely temp related

Rule out valve adjustment...rule out spark plugs heat ranges....rule out gummed up secondary air system....at least this time I have it on video...dies straight off...bitch to start thereafter

2 videos....one of the initial fail....then the continual failure...even after cool down I'm not getting clean air....pulled the air filter....started right up.....hmmmmmm.....it's a k&n....as I type the bikes temp is rising....165....I have a paper one...but...its old but I can swap it if this works....175....my neighbors must think I'm obnoxious....the idle smells infinitely better....185....190...role camera...argh...welp not the air filter...but it does start up sooner with it out...think this is more of a symptom than a cause....

Thoughts?

Thinking this could be a fuel mapping issue? Anyone with a power commander experience this phenomenon??? Let me know

Octane? I need gas but I also just cracked a beer...will put in some 87...to mix with the gallon or so of 93

Put in a tank of 89....spent 11 minutes trying to get it to start....not octane