[Tchase]

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[tye1138]

The news of a new Panigale 1299R, accompanied by a panel with the photo of the bike with an engine capacity in evidence, was given during a convention dedicated to the American Ducati sales network. On this occasion it was awarded the dealership of Portland ( here you can see their Panigale from "off-road ") as the best dealer in the USA for the second consecutive year. And so the photo of the winners, with the image of the Panigale's shoulders, it's over at the moment on their fb page.

We can tell you that the note Panigale 1199 will remain on the list, while the new version 1299R will be presented in November at the Milan became the spearhead of the series. At EICMA, as we have already written, we will also see the new Multistrada and the fact that it got a new engine blown leads us to believe that it can also be fitted on the Multistrada 2015, of course with the necessary modifications of the case. The debut of the Scrambler is instead expected to Intermot in a couple of weeks.

The Panigale 1299R has LED headlights, aesthetics remodeled and new exhaust system. The engine of cubic capacity has grown to remedy a "shortage" of shooting at medium - the criticism had been made to the 1199 - and not just to increase the power which, remember, is currently of 195 hp at 10,750 rpm.

The increase in capacity will not, at least at the moment, considering that the effects in the Superbike technical regulations 2015 was clearly defined and techniques to give you more opportunities than in the past two-cylinder engines. So much so that the grille of the upcoming season will see a greater number of Ducati at the start. Two years ago, when the Panigale struggled a lot in SBK, more than one pointed out that the ratio of a cylinder with four-cylinder engines were unfavorable. Now it is not so but it is certain that in Bologna also worked in optical competitions for the foreseeable future. Soon we learn more and we will update you.

 

[tye1138]

Egads, really? I highly doubt Ducati is making a 1299cc motor purposely for consumers. It's very clear they're going to be pushing their weight around in WSBK once more and try to have the displacement increased. They discussed this two years ago, when the Panigale first entered WSTK, but we all thought it was a joke. Now, the bike appears to be a reality and will most likely be racing in 2016 when the rules are finalized.

When they fail to beat Aprilia and Kawasaki again, what's next? 1400cc's, 1500cc's? When will they realize, you can't make power without rev's and there is no replacement for valve area. This is why all the other marques have gone with triples or four bangers of one configuration or another.

:shrug:

 

[Tchase]

Egads, really? I highly doubt Ducati is making a 1299cc motor purposely for consumers. It's very clear they're going to be pushing their weight around in WSBK once more and try to have the displacement increased. They discussed this two years ago, when the Panigale first entered WSTK, but we all thought it was a joke. Now, the bike appears to be a reality and will most likely be racing in 2016 when the rules are finalized.

When they fail to beat Aprilia and Kawasaki again, what's next? 1400cc's, 1500cc's? When will they realize, you can't make power without rev's and there is no replacement for valve area. This is why all the other marques have gone with triples or four bangers of one configuration or another.

:shrug:

Ever the optimist.....

 

[Donger]

-.- just make the follow-up SF with chain driven and dry clutch instead of bigger engine

 

[rubbish]

Wait...is this for real?? I saw this earlier posted somewhere else, but I thought it was a joke...I hadn't heard of the site that I read it on, so it thought it was like The Onion sort of site, but for motorcycle/racing news lol. I hope this is a joke.

What is it with Ducati switching to odd sized engines? A middleweight bike that's only 100cc less than everyone's superbike class....a 1300cc superbike, that puts it in the same class as a Hayabusa and zx14?? LOL....Ducati doesn't need more displacement, they just need 2 more cylinders. They've proven long ago that their V4 was a beast!

 

[tye1138]

Ever the optimist.....

Ducati spent millions to make an all-new racer. They knew there is no replacement for valve area and RPM's. They had the chance to build a 999cc V4 just like their MotoGP bike. The excuses they gave about expense, about keeping their heritage, its all bullshit. The Panigale has only two pieces of "heritage" the SSSA and Desmodromic 90 degree twin.

So now they're looking back on their decision to go 1199cc twin (three years in and no professional championships) with an eye on continuing to go the same direction. A direction that clearly doesn't work, that clearly has limited their success in the past and will continue to do so no matter what displacement ADVANTAGE they have over their competitors.

Ducati will have their day on the top step again, its inevitable. As the new rules drive the few remaining factory teams away, its now a race to beat Kawasaki and Tom Sykes. We've gone full-circle, back to 2003/2004 where the grid was mostly Ducati's, with the rules favoring them the most.

So yes, thats why I'm pessimistic about the whole 1299cc thing. Might as well call World Superbikes the "all Ducati" championship as of 2016. Great for those who only see red, not so great for those who want competition amongst manufacturers and riders.

 

[Tchase]

Ducati spent millions to make an all-new racer. They knew there is no replacement for valve area and RPM's. They had the chance to build a 999cc V4 just like their MotoGP bike. The excuses they gave about expense, about keeping their heritage, its all bullshit. The Panigale has only two pieces of "heritage" the SSSA and Desmodromic 90 degree twin.

So now they're looking back on their decision to go 1199cc twin (three years in and no professional championships) with an eye on continuing to go the same direction. A direction that clearly doesn't work, that clearly has limited their success in the past and will continue to do so no matter what displacement ADVANTAGE they have over their competitors.

Ducati will have their day on the top step again, its inevitable. As the new rules drive the few remaining factory teams away, its now a race to beat Kawasaki and Tom Sykes. We've gone full-circle, back to 2003/2004 where the grid was mostly Ducati's, with the rules favoring them the most.

So yes, thats why I'm pessimistic about the whole 1299cc thing. Might as well call World Superbikes the "all Ducati" championship as of 2016. Great for those who only see red, not so great for those who want competition amongst manufacturers and riders.

BS you are pessimistic about all things Ducati

 

[Gunny Fitz]

IMHO I truly think this is all a ploy, done on purpose, and was meant to cause tons of havoc and speculation on our part out here in the "customer desperately wants" category if you know what I mean?

We shall all see soon enough, but I don't think it was an accidental release of info.

 

[DUCKYMAR]

I truly do think that Ducati released the 1199 Panigale about 1 year too early. I think Ducati could have refined it (like make adjustments to the bore/stroke ratio, exhaust header length/diameter, and etc etc) much more with another year of testing. The great Troy Bayliss, was one of the lead develop meant riders for the 1199. Which is a great idea to have him develop the 1199, but it's kind of a catch-22 as it's said. No matter how great the bike is with Troy riding it, it's just that, he is riding it. I mean, Troy Bayliss is one of the greatest riders of all-time and one of the short list of riders that can ride the Ducati "BULL" properly. It's like his riding style and the Ducati's strengths as a race bike are like a match made in heaven! IMHO

 

[1fast750ss]

If Ducati wants to push the Rules Barrier, they would fight to remove all restrictions on the bike, not go to a larger displacement.

Peagram's 1098R put out 15rwhp more than the World SBK guy's bikes. Imagine what the Panigale would do with another 15rwhp. Just speculation, but.....................................

 

[tye1138]

BS you are pessimistic about all things Ducati

I think you meant to say "Pessimistic about all things."

 

[tye1138]

If Ducati wants to push the Rules Barrier, they would fight to remove all restrictions on the bike, not go to a larger displacement.

The Panigale's biggest issue is its greatest asset. They made a motor which can withstand the higher RPM's necessary to make a 1199cc twin produce some serious power. However, if they run at higher RPM's, they will loose the reliability which is critical in the current rule structure.

In my view, even if they had zero intake and weight restrictions, the bike wouldn't be that much faster with the current rules. However, if they allow the teams to have 12 motors per year, you'd see everyone go faster. The advantage Ducati would have would be quickly trumped as the other marques used it to their advantage as well.

Unfortunately, the only way for Ducati to be successful in World Superbikes is to slow down the competition.

 

[shakazulu12]

Newsflash, Ducati has not had restrictors on the Panigale since mid season 2013. I don't know why people keep bringing it up.

 

[rubbish]

Newsflash, Ducati has not had restrictors on the Panigale since mid season 2013. I don't know why people keep bringing it up.

Yeah, they saw how rubbish it was with the intake restriction, so they removed it. But they still have a weight penalty.

I think the Panigale could be a serious beast if you could go all out on it with mods and have no restrictions...but then again, so can every other bike. The Suzukis were pushing close to 240 hp at the beginning of the season (supposedly), until they blew the engine in the 2nd race. At that rate they would've ran out of engines mid season, so they dialed it back...and now they're not even running in the top 5 most races.

 

[shakazulu12]

I believe the Ducati had the weight penalty removed this year as well, and it's on equal footing for next years rules also. Tye pretty much hit the nail on the head IMHO, a V-twin simply isn't the right platform for the rules package that existed previously. I think it will do a lot better under next years rules, but that remains to be seen. However, and this is just my opinion as well and not based on fact, I think the tire wear issues are going to persist regardless and hinder the bike in race circumstances. It's capable of throwing down fast laps in qualifying, but that doesn't help twenty laps in. The 4 cylinders are doing some amazing things with power delivery now, listening to Syke's bike transition from a twin, to triple, to 4 cylinders as it comes out of a corner is amazing to me.

 

[Picklesp]

Maybe that's why they built the SL they knew the 1199 was done .?

 

[pat1098]

I think this discussion needs to take more account of why Ducati build motorcycles. It is not primarily to win races, but to sell road bikes.

Offering a 1299 - ostensibly to overcome the lack of midrange an 1199 has compared to the 1198 - is probably only to be able to offer a better road machine. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt at this point.

And I don't know that this should have led into a discussion of Ducati bending rules to suit themselves, another era of The Ducati Cup etc. They have already stated that the 1199 will remain for racing.

And yes - of course a 4-cylinder engine can utilise higher revs and a larger valve area per capacity - but if that ruled our choice of road bike, why are we all here? Well, most of us..

We are here because we like something a little different. We like the feel, the easy midrange drive, that only Ducati offers. They have a 'flavour' that is not available elsewhere.

Almost every other superbike runs four cylinders, with nothing like the low-rev response of our Ducatis. Do we really want Ducatis to become a clone of the other makes? To follow Aprilia into a similar bike?

Ducati have clearly made a conscious decision to stay with the twin in their roadbike range, and hence in WSBK, and the V4 in GP. And they were always annoyed that Aprilia ended up in WSBK with a virtual MotoGP bike, so that would make it difficult for them to go the same way.

It is unfortunate that progress has moved on to the point that the torque of the Ducati V-twin - arguably its most desirable feature as a road bike - has become its Achilles heel in WSBK. Tyres can contain only so much..

But the reality is that the WSBK championship may be on its death bed if Dorna has its way. So any changes of rules will probably become irrelevant before too long. We knew Ducati had been experimenting with larger capacities - initially for the Diavel - so no surprise that they are offering it on the sports models.

But that shouldn't lead to accusations of rule-changing or favouritism. They are primarily trying to sell road bikes, remember. Do we really want road bikes that are even more orientated towards track use than what we currently have? With higher rev requirements, smaller tanks and softer tyres?

 

[W17]

I agree Pat . We ride Ducati's because we like twin cylinder motorbikes I ride a KTM for the same reason .
I also agree that no manufacturer builds bikes just to win races they build them to sell to knob heads like us .
I also think this new motor will be a longer stoke 1199 motor more suited for the street .

 

[rubbish]

I believe the Ducati had the weight penalty removed this year as well, and it's on equal footing for next years rules also. Tye pretty much hit the nail on the head IMHO, a V-twin simply isn't the right platform for the rules package that existed previously. I think it will do a lot better under next years rules, but that remains to be seen. However, and this is just my opinion as well and not based on fact, I think the tire wear issues are going to persist regardless and hinder the bike in race circumstances. It's capable of throwing down fast laps in qualifying, but that doesn't help twenty laps in. The 4 cylinders are doing some amazing things with power delivery now, listening to Syke's bike transition from a twin, to triple, to 4 cylinders as it comes out of a corner is amazing to me.

But then what changed? When Checa was running the 1098R, they were made the tires last longer than anyone else on the grid. Tire wear was not an issue before....so what happened, if that's really what the problem is (which I'm not convinced of)?