[halcyononon]

As the title says, does anyone have any real-world experience tuning an 848 on a dyno with the Bazzaz ZFi?

I'm aware you can only tune one cylinder at a time, and you can only build a single fuel map, but I have the following idea...

1) Dyno run and map front cyl
2) Dyno run and map rear cyl
3) Combine maps and build an 'average map'
4) Knock the front cyl down 1 or 2%, and the rear up 1 or 2% depending on the results

Thoughts or comments? And, while I'm here, why won't Bazzaz introduce two fuel maps?

I only ask as I have access to a Z-Fi for free, so am interested in 'making it work' rather than just getting a PCV or Tuneboy...

 

[tye1138]

I'll say this much, piggy back EFI systems are nothing but toys. The stock ECU can very easily be tuned by someone who knows what they're doing. Since you're still using the stock ECU to provide initial map data (as piggy back systems like Bazzaz only increase or decrease whatever the stock ECU puts out), its almost a pointless way to tune because the stock ECU has more then one table. The 02 sensor table is the critical one and if it finds the sensor data to be off from the table, it will alter the fueling to compensate. Disabling the 02 system on the stock ECU is the same process as adding a map to it. So its kind of a catch 22… you can't really make a piggy back fueling system work without getting into the stock ECU, yet getting into the stock ECU is all you need to do in order to throw a better fueling map on it. :shrug:

Bazzaz ECU's were made for Japanese inline 4's, where the fueling doesn't really change per cylinder. His people developed a twin version which allows an off-set for the horizontal head since it heats up more. Same goes for Power Commander, its a single map system with an offset. Since there are actual decent solutions for Ducati fueling, the piggyback manufactures haven't quite spent the time necessary to make the "Ducati" versions of their products benefit the twin layout.

I'd simply go to a Ducati tuner and have the stock ECU tuned OR better yet, buy a used Nemesis or Microtech ECU and have that tuned. I know free is a great thing, but there is a reason why its free… because it isn't that great. Also, it doesn't come with lambda's and the pipes are a 2-1-2 system, so you can't shove a probe in the exhaust pipe and get Horizontal or Vertical data. You need to actually unplug the 02 sensor, plug in a wide-band lambda and tune. This is why most bikes, simply aren't tuned well.

 

[Aussie_Bob]

..... His people developed a twin version which allows an off-set for the horizontal head since it heats up more.....

You sure about that?

 

[219R]

^^ That's pretty damn funny!!!

 

[cbr6]

My 2 cents, I have a 848 evo, bazzaz zfi and afm. works great, easy to use. bike makes good power, runs smooth with driveabilty below 4000 rpm excellent. If you go to bazzaz website where they have user made maps you'll find 2 of my maps there that I gave to a fourm member who loaded them there. They should get you very close if you go that direction.

PS; Bazzaz told me water cooled Ducati's didn't show a need to map both cylinders, but you can richen or lean a cylinder if you need to. You can also switch between 2 maps on the fly. and If I remember you can adjust fueling in each gear I think, might be wrong on that.

 

[halcyononon]

^^ That's pretty damn funny!!!

yeah, so the front cyl is the horizontal cylinder, which i think cools down more than the vertical, or rear cylinder. thats my understanding.

either way, if this Bazzaz unit can get me to within 90% of a "perfect" map for each cylinder, i'll be happy with that.

I just can't find anyone in Sydney (AU) that can tune direct to the ECU, so while I've already had a RexXer tune flashed to get rid of the closed loop, improve the fuelling etc, i'm keen to get the fuelling a bit closer to 13:1 (running pretty rich at the moment).

 

[[email protected]]

Z-AFM is your friend.

 

[tye1138]

yeah, so the front cyl is the horizontal cylinder, which i think cools down more than the vertical, or rear cylinder. thats my understanding.

The front (horizontal) cylinder requires an alternative map then the back (vertical) cylinder. This is due to it being a hotter running cylinder. You will notice the Ducati spec's for valve clearances has a special one for the exhaust closers/openers on the horizontal cylinder. This is a good indication that my data is accurate.

I always mapped for the horizontal and then adapted the map for the vertical because it was easier. I would simply test the A/F using the same lambda sensor, but never needed to run an auto tune on it.

 

[halcyononon]

you absolutely sure about that?

a hotter cylinder implies it runs leaner, however all the literature on Bazzaz recommends a -ve offset on the front cylinder (or a +ve offset on the rear)...

why would they want to make the lean cylinder even leaner? not sure that makes any sense?

 

[tye1138]

you absolutely sure about that?

What I know is that Ducati are so scared about the front cylinder, they have spec'ed special "looser" clearances. There is no other reason to do that besides excess heat.

The horizontal cylinders always run rich, its one of the issues with these bikes. So if you tune for it AND THEN adapt the map to the vertical, you're good to go.

But this does require lambda in the exhaust manifold, not a probe up the exhaust pipe.

 

[halcyononon]

Just FYI for anyone looking to go this route, please do not listen to Tye.

I confirmed my theory with Bazzaz, per the image. Tye, if you want to argue with Bazzaz tech, be my guest.

 

[tye1138]

Just FYI for anyone looking to go this route, please do not listen to Tye.

I confirmed my theory with Bazzaz, per the image. Tye, if you want to argue with Bazzaz tech, be my guest.

Just did a bit of research to back my claim up. Turns out on 4 valve water cooled bikes, the reason why Ducati considers the front cylinder to run "hotter" has to do with header pipe temp's due to the almost 90 degree "kink" in the pipe. So they spec the horizontal cylinder clearances differently because the HEAD gets hotter, not the combustion chamber.

The combustion chamber on the vertical cylinder runs slightly hotter, which is why if you build a map for the vertical using a lambda sensor, the horizontal will have massive build up.

So I apologize about the confusion… Like I said before, I've always tuned the horizontal cylinder and let the ECU take care of the vertical cylinder.

 

[Aussie_Bob]

Just did a bit of research to back my claim up. ......

Of which you will share...... right?
What's the harm?

Or should we just trust you ?

 

[Aussie_Bob]

...... please do not listen to Tye.....

I only ever do when I'm feeling down and need a good belly laugh for a quick pick-me up.

I wouldn't trust him to pump up the tyres on my bicycle.