Well, you do need to lean off the bike.

If you did a few track days, got your knee down and really figured out what serious lean angle was all about, you'd do better in the canyons. Just leaning off the bike with your inside knee tucked into the tank, isn't a good body position.

Also, you should have started the corner wider, more towards the yellow line, use the inside white line as the apex, you can carry more speed that way.

Streets aren't the place to practice that sort of stuff. I find it very hard to ride fast in the canyons because you're very compromised when in the proper body position. There are some very quick street guys who ride like they're on the track in the canyons, but thats because they're willing to crash. Ya gotta be willing to be in an ambulance at any given moment to really push it in the canyons. I've done it before and I'm glad I don't anymore.

 

Well, you do need to lean off the bike.

If you did a few track days, got your knee down and really figured out what serious lean angle was all about, you'd do better in the canyons. Just leaning off the bike with your inside knee tucked into the tank, isn't a good body position.

Also, you should have started the corner wider, more towards the yellow line, use the inside white line as the apex, you can carry more speed that way.

Streets aren't the place to practice that sort of stuff. I find it very hard to ride fast in the canyons because you're very compromised when in the proper body position. There are some very quick street guys who ride like they're on the track in the canyons, but thats because they're willing to crash. Ya gotta be willing to be in an ambulance at any given moment to really push it in the canyons. I've done it before and I'm glad I don't anymore.

+1
go to track and learn proper lean

 

thanks for the tip, you cant tell in the video but this turn is actually a U sweep type of turn. So im hitting the apex mid turn, then widening out.

As for leaning off the bike, i tuck in and hang off but i cant bring myself to physically hang off the bike. is this something that must be overcome mentally, or is there a technique i should try? as of now my technique is to place my helmet where the mirror is, being on my toes and hanging off my tank with my leg. (albeit very minor hanging lol).

and yea, id love to try a track day but its one of those things where i don't know if i have the weekend off from work until its actually the weekend.

 

and yea, id love to try a track day but its one of those things where i don't know if i have the weekend off from work until its actually the weekend.

Join the DRC if you haven't already and come with us to a track day at Fontana. I've only done a few track days myself, so we will likely be in the same group.

 

honestly, go to a track day and take novice and listen to what they teach you, 3rd session most likely they will have a bike out to actually show you how to properly lean off the bike and teach you.
thats how Sportbike Track Time does and they are a awesome organization, i spent 1 year in novice and starting my 2nd year in Intermediate. Do not rush anything, it will gradually happen, i still brake early for turns and Rusty848 gives me **** for it but im riding in my comfort level and you must as well. Before you know it you will be pushing yourself without realizing it. Also make sure you wear your protective gear including back protector.

and if you want a reference, here is my insanely slow ass still learning
i have no shame

-Carbon

 

I keep my bikes in upstate NY at my farm so is safe to say I do not ride that much in the winter. However, I do live vicariously through others on youtube. One such video I watch often to help with riding technique is

 

^^^

Funny thing is, on the track, where it counts, guys like that are usually very slow. See, it doesn't take much talent to ride around on the streets fast, just a whole lot of ignoring the environment.

I use to ride in the canyons, but I use to get my ass kicked by my friends. Eventually my friends all started going to the track and I was many seconds a lap faster on a piece of junk antique Ducati. Eventually they went faster, but all the bad rider traits they had built up over the years, were very hard to break. They all eventually gave up track riding because they never saw any progress. Eventually one by one, they stopped riding because of getting injured or dying in the canyons. I stopped riding in the canyons when I started going to trackdays and only go on occasion to enjoy being on 2 wheels, not go fast.

It took me a few months of riding and eventually racing, to figure out how to ride on the track, it wasn't easy. But once you understand the basics, its very easy to translate those into riding on the street, if you can ignore the environment. The problem is, you have to go very fast in order to keep your tires hot enough, so you can carry the proper lean angle, so you CAN use those "track" skills on the street. The guys in the first part of the video above, picked a very fast/flowing section of road which I know very well. Its very residential, cars pulling in and out of driveways, lots of bicyclists and stopped vehicles on the road. To do what those guys were doing, doesn't take talent, it doesn't take brains, it just takes stupidity.

 

To do what those guys were doing, doesn't take talent, it doesn't take brains, it just takes stupidity.

Your guys philosophy is sound, the concepts of going slower to go faster, to put yourself in a situation where you can ride safer and increase your cornering speed at the same time, its all good stuff.

However, having two different philosophies on riding, is a tough thing.

I don't like playing it safe, that doesn't give me the rush I need to enjoy motorcycling and everyone I know, has the same philosop. However, we're also a lot younger and for sure not as wise. Maybe when we're older and wiser things will be different, but for the time being, I ride on the track, the place where you can properly ride. The place superbikes are made to be ridden.

I am only 43... And like I said before... I have been pacing for 20 plus years... So do the math...

Before you said to ride like that on the street ( see quote above) took stupidity... And lack of brains.. But now? You ride like that because you are younger than me?need your rush?

Your choice... You are speaking as a man that rides the track and street the same?

I do not...
Nor do I think a 22 year old will not enjoy the pace... Nor do I think that He needs to hang off and drag knee to have fun and learn the "right" way to ride.

I do track...
I do the street..
I do the pace on the street...
And a drag knee on the track..
I can practice two styles of riding...
Tye, if you can't... Or do not like to ...that is cool...
He'll, My track bike has reverse shift as well... But not my street bikes. Two different ways is fine...

But to ride the streets like a track is stupid... And in this thread you said so yourself...

Has nothing to do with age... It is called common sense...
I recommend "The Pace" ... And like I said... It is not slow.
Next spring, we will hook up.
Have some fun... You can drag knee all you want on your KTM..
And we will pace it out...

And remember... The boys that started the pace used to drag knee on the track as well... While testing all of the bikes for "Motorcyclist" magazine..Chaco in the '80's...
Go figure...

 

+1

 

Yeah thats not the case for Adey(guy on the R1).. He really is fast on the track

 

Depends on your definition of fast! LOL

He's for sure not smart...

 

haha i hear that, i save the knee dragging for the track thats for sure

 

thanks for all the tips guys. Ill definitely check out fastrack since fontana is only 30 minutes from me, hopefully they do have some last minute spots available.

I like the bike on stands option as well, as that will give me an artificial feel for what it should feel like.

But thanks again to everyone, seeing that i'm not the only one out there getting this big bike to lean makes me feel a bit more confident in taking it slow and not rushing things.

 

Yes sir, taking the long route is a smart idea, especially if you don't wanna crash!

 

All these guys are making great points and we all do track days together. To add to tyes comments make sure you slide right up to the tank(which happens naturally under breaking). As you tip into the corner slide your torso off the side of the tank. This forces your head to be low and towards the mirror. It takes some practice and felt really funny to me at first. All of a sudden your body comes off the bike and out of the seat. I practiced all day at Fontana last time out!

 

I've been meaning to upload this video I shot in 2009 of me riding the 749R. Maybe you can get some info off this... ya never know!

I was testing a new slipper clutch that day and it wasn't working, so my corner entry sucked. But at least you can get a closer up view.

 

thanks garrett! it looks like we found one flaw in my technique lol when i go into a corner i usually tuck in and place my butt on the very back of the seat, almost touching the rear passenger seat. Ill try coming further up on the tank and see how it feels.

tye, your video doesnt play for some reason...

 

tye, your video doesnt play for some reason...

My bad, fixed.

 

Also, switch to a reverse shift pattern. Makes shifting in a tuck coming out of the corner sooo much easier!

 

It depends on what you wear when riding.

With jeans, your butt kinda sticks more to the seat. With leathers, your butt slides around much more, almost too much honestly. I find myself constantly slamming my balls against the tank on the 848 (same as the 1198) and it kinda sucked.

Remember, weight over the front when braking, weight over the rear when accelerating.

Its not a BIG deal when on the street if you mess this up. But its for sure a key to being in the right body position.

Ohh and +1 on the reverse shift, I can't ride track without it. All my Ducati's were reverse shift, even my street bikes.

 

Get the super pole tye. No more nut bashing.

 

I was suppose to get a superbike tail with a foam seat, but my sponsor was out of them and gave me a free tail for a normal seat as I waited for the superbike tail to be made. Sadly, I don't have the 848 anymore, but if I build another one, I'll for sure do the foam pad and superbike tail. The stock seat is so worthless! LOL

 

awesome video tye, really like the angle! i can kinda see now how far i really need to lean off

Garrett i'm excited to try this technique out now, it makes sense to stay more forward on the bike, im not sure why i felt differently before. Also, my superpole seat comes in on monday so that should be a big help with the nut slapping tye memtioned haha

As for GP shifting, both my previous bikes were set for GP even for street riding, however i don't want to lose my DQS on this bike so for now ill just leave it as standard. I just put the Driven rearsets on as well so im probably going to be without GP for a while

 

also, tye i've tried the weight on the rear when accelerating and honestly the bike just comes up way too easy lol when i'm in WOT i have to be pretty far forward in order for it to not wheelie on me in every gear up to 4th hahaha

 

Yep, the rear is probably too stiff, its not sagging when you get on the throttle. I've ridden some pretty powerful superbikes and never had a problem when set up right.

Your right about it being a problem on the street though. Its one reason I never liked big bore bikes on the street, it takes too much effort to keep the nose down. You're fighting the bike instead of enjoying it.

Not to toot my own horn, but I recently switched from superbikes to naked bikes for street riding. I can't explain enough how much I like the naked bikes. There is nothing like riding around a 328lb 650cc 68hp single. As a reference, thats roughly 100lb less then the 1198. You wanna talk about fun? Here it is:

The new one is a 690cc motor with 70hp and its even lighter. Just came out in the US and will be in stores April/March for $8699.

You buy something like that, you'll go WAY quicker in the canyons, your first time out. Its a whole other dimension of fun, the Ducati Superbikes can't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

 

Have you tried the hyper?

 

Yes sir! I dig it. But it has lots of issues;

1 It gets really hot, so for So Cal sitting at stop lights, that sucks
2 Its still pretty heavy 370 dry which means 385 wet, in contrast, my 848 Race bike weighed 348lb dry.
3 The tank lasts 90 miles and with me riding, more like 85 miles as I ride everything hard and it would eat gas
4 The mirrors are absolutely useless and bogus. Because they stick out so far, you're always hitting them on stuff
5 That motor is not very reliable. They have lots of valve seat issues, which cause premature valve guide failures.
6 They're kind of expensive for what they are.

I thought long and hard about my decision. Moving away from Ducati's and into a brand I didn't know anything about. However, the grass is truly greener on the other side. I get 40+mpg on my Duke, riding it super hard and the tank always lasts 130 - 140 miles no matter what I do. Plus it doesn't get hot ever, and when I mean ever, I mean never, ever. I didn't sweat from bike heat ONCE all summer long and its the first time that's never happened in all the years I've ridden Ducati's.

Yea, I'd love to own a hyper someday. But if you look at the specs, it doesn't make any sense to change.

 

I may end up moving towards the South Bay Area and commuting up the 405 daily. If I do that I need something like that duke to get me to work without sweating like a pig!

 

Yes SIR!

You can come over any time and ride'er if you want.

 

A question I've wanted to ask for a while regarding leaning off the bike and it's purpose. Figure it fits here. (and with the new friendlier format, perhaps I won't get hammered on too bad for asking it. ).

Take a single corner at a given speed. To make it around the corner, without hanging off the bike, the bike would lean at, lets say 45 degrees. By hanging off, would you then not need to lean the bike as far?

I've seen the MotoGP guys take corners both hanging off and not hanging off.

Considering this, what are the physics being applied by hanging off the bike?

 

The reason you hang off the bike is two fold:

- Put weight on the inside of the bike to help lean it into the corner and distribute that weight properly during the corner.
- To use your body as a gauge in order to determine your lean angle.

If you weren't to hang off the bike, you wouldn't have any idea how how much lean angle you were at. You need that "gauge" your body provides to determine those things.

Tires only have a limited amount of grip potential at any given lean angle. In a lot of cases, you'll scrape the pegs before rolling off the tire.

The goal in cornering is to be at max lean angle for as little time as possible and to get back on the meat of the tire as quickly as possible, where you can yank the throttle back open.

 

Understood. So, hanging off doesn't allow you to reduce the lean angle of the bike given all things being equal. (but has the benefits you mentioned of course).

 

It's just a tool to learn how to maximize speed based on the present level of grip. Better tires will allow more grip and more severe lean angles. Look at the GP guys, on the high speed stuff they have a cheek off the seat but dragging their elbows in the corners.

 

+2

 

where area do you live in? i might take you up on that offer haha

 

Van Nuys, in between the 101/405/170 highways.