[Smeegle]

Ok, it's the end of the season, time to store the bike (I'm getting depressed just thinking about it..). I, like I'm guessing most of us have bought numerous CF pieces. I'm sure that I, like most of us have purchased them from more than one vendor. I'm also guessing that some pieces have a nicer glossier finish than other pieces. For example, the CF heat guard that comes with the Full Termi system is a far cry from most of the other pieces we've all bought.

So I'm thinking of some small winter projects, like ways to make some of the pieces look nicer. Anyone have any experience with applying your own layer of clearcoat? If so, what have been the results? Does it still have a hard finish? Any recommended brands, it they exist?

thanks.

 

[Abraxxas1127]

Just take a grey 3M scuff pad (available at any autobody supply store) to the carbon fiber bits so they arent shiny anymore, IMHO its much safer for the average person to use a scuff pad than it is to wetsand with 2000 grit or something, less chance of going through the clear and affecting the look of the weave underneath. If you dont scuff it properly the paint will peel/chip off extremely easily, the part must be "dull" before applying any type of finish to it.

Next, if you dont have access to quality spray equipment and a good 2 part urethane automotive clear coat, just take the pieces to a bodyshop and have them clear them for you. I've been in the automotive refinishing business for 12 years and one thing I can tell you with full certainty is that you will not find a good hard clear in any rattle cans anywhere no matter what anybody tells you.

Once they are cleared they can be wetsanded and buffed to a show quality finish just like any car if you like, also to remove any dust specs that may have ended up in them before the clear dried. Once they are buffed just let them sit in a warm part of your house until summer and allow them to fully cure, maximum hardness in clearcoat comes after about 30 days in 65deg and above. After that the parts will have just as durable a finish as the hood of your car and look fantistic too!

BTW I havent personally had any experience with it but IMHO I would not attempt this on carbon exhaust canisters due to the high temps unless somebody with experience can speak up about it. It may be ok but I dont really know therefore wont personally recommend it

 

[Smeegle]

Just take a grey 3M scuff pad (available at any autobody supply store) to the carbon fiber bits so they arent shiny anymore, IMHO its much safer for the average person to use a scuff pad than it is to wetsand with 2000 grit or something, less chance of going through the clear and affecting the look of the weave underneath. If you dont scuff it properly the paint will peel/chip off extremely easily, the part must be "dull" before applying any type of finish to it.

Next, if you dont have access to quality spray equipment and a good 2 part urethane automotive clear coat, just take the pieces to a bodyshop and have them clear them for you. I've been in the automotive refinishing business for 12 years and one thing I can tell you with full certainty is that you will not find a good hard clear in any rattle cans anywhere no matter what anybody tells you.

Once they are cleared they can be wetsanded and buffed to a show quality finish just like any car if you like, also to remove any dust specs that may have ended up in them before the clear dried. Once they are buffed just let them sit in a warm part of your house until summer and allow them to fully cure, maximum hardness in clearcoat comes after about 30 days in 65deg and above. After that the parts will have just as durable a finish as the hood of your car and look fantistic too!

BTW I havent personally had any experience with it but IMHO I would not attempt this on carbon exhaust canisters due to the high temps unless somebody with experience can speak up about it. It may be ok but I dont really know therefore wont personally recommend it

Thanks!

I have no experience with autobody work but you said after its cleared to wetsand it? Is that just water and high grit (what grade) sandpaper? Won't that make it dull looking again?

 

[Abraxxas1127]

Thanks!

I have no experience with autobody work but you said after its cleared to wetsand it? Is that just water and high grit (what grade) sandpaper? Won't that make it dull looking again?

Correct, water and 2000 grit paper, yes it will make it dull again but you take a machine buffer to the part after you wetsand it and this brings the gloss back better than it was before. In fact 3M also has a system known as "Trizact" which is 3000 grit paper you can use on a DA sander wet, it works fantasticly, the finer the paper you wetsand with the less effort it takes to bring the shine back afterwards. Now, if you look at the surface of the paint on your bike or car very closely you will see it has small "bumps" in it, texture... commonly referred to as "orange peel" because up close the texture resembles the peel of an orange. When you wetsand clear you can get rid of this texture and make it perfectly smooth, after it is buffed and shiney again it looks like glass with no texture. Any show quality paint job has this process done to it, also commonly referred to as "color sanding". You can remove dust in the paint using this process as well, making the surface perfect.

You dont have to wetsand and buff after the part is cleared, it will be as glossy and beautiful as the finish on the bike if sprayed properly. Wetsanding and buffing just adds that final touch of perfection if you so desire The process is time consuming and is reserved mainly for custom work and high dollar paint jobs, its not something that gets done at the factory

Here is a closup of a light bulb reflection in my ZX12R, it wasnt wetsanded...

And here is the same light bulb reflected in a black part that I painted on my ZX12R after it was wetsanded and buffed.

 

[Jwallig]

That is one hell of a difference!

 

[lee]

PPG has a clearcoat which is so hard when it cures that if you don't color sand and buff within 24 hrs after curing it'll take you forever. The other end of the spectrum is House of Kolor clear coat. Used to be known as UFC-1 the last time I used it. It's alot softer than the PPG and you can wait two weeks to sand and buff and gives the same gloss. Also only comes in Qts and is $$$$. Perhaps Abraxxas would care to comment. I'm not a pro but I do all my own paint work.

 

[Abraxxas1127]

PPG has a clearcoat which is so hard when it cures that if you don't color sand and buff within 24 hrs after curing it'll take you forever. The other end of the spectrum is House of Kolor clear coat. Used to be known as UFC-1 the last time I used it. It's alot softer than the PPG and you can wait two weeks to sand and buff and gives the same gloss. Also only comes in Qts and is $$$$. Perhaps Abraxxas would care to comment. I'm not a pro but I do all my own paint work.

Very true cloudrider, different brands will have various degrees of hardness when fully cured. Im not personally familiar with the PPG line, I do use HoK on occasion but I only use their colors and effects then clear it with our clear. In our shop we use Nexa Autocolor, formerly ICI Autocolor before PPG bought them out a few years back. Our clear buffs best within the first 24 hours, after that it takes forever and I think that is common with most clears I know one of the HoK clears stays softer and is used by some custom shops because you can let it cure for a month to let your bodywork shrink if its going to... then colorsand and buff after the shrink is done so if any sanding scratches come through you can get them out with the colorsand and then buffing is not too bad. Nexa has a "Scratch and chip resistant" additive you can put in the clear which essentially turns it into a rock and makes it near impossible to colorsand/buff

 

[Koolio]

Wow! That is a huge diff Abraxxas1127.

 

[Abraxxas1127]

Wow! That is a huge diff Abraxxas1127.

Makes the first picture of the green look like hell, huh? Funny thing is that bike looks beautiful and you can only see this difference looking up close. There is a picture of the green bike in my album and you can see it looks like brand new. You dont realize how much better paint CAN look until you see it up close

 

[Visitor Q]

Just like glass, nice!

I know I am going to need to content with those CF lowers I got here sometime before next season. Still unsure if I am going to have them painted with hints of the CF or just have them cleared over 2 or 3 times.

Jason

 

[NewDuc]

I learned about orange peel when buying/trading cars...helped me when buying something used but only after hosing me when trading something else before that!

Makes the first picture of the green look like hell, huh? Funny thing is that bike looks beautiful and you can only see this difference looking up close. There is a picture of the green bike in my album and you can see it looks like brand new. You dont realize how much better paint CAN look until you see it up close

 

[Smeegle]

PPG has a clearcoat which is so hard when it cures that if you don't color sand and buff within 24 hrs after curing it'll take you forever. The other end of the spectrum is House of Kolor clear coat. Used to be known as UFC-1 the last time I used it. It's alot softer than the PPG and you can wait two weeks to sand and buff and gives the same gloss. Also only comes in Qts and is $$$$. Perhaps Abraxxas would care to comment. I'm not a pro but I do all my own paint work.

Cloudrider,

Thanks for the info. Do you know where PPG or HoK stuff is available, can it be ordered on-line? I don't any spraying equipment, are these products available in cans?

I'm willing try it on some inconspicous cf pieces first just to test my skill before taking on any of the bigger more expensive pieces..

 

[lee]

Any automotive body supply shop should have one or the other. I would also have a look at the clear Abrax uses. Do NOT get anything in an aerosol can. It's garbage and will not hold up or give you the finish you're after. I doubt you can get any clears in a spray bomb. Abrax you know of any? Without a gun or an airbrush you're not going to be able to do it. One exception- I've mixed with no reducer and brushed it on small areas using a foam brush. The down side is you have to spend alot of time color sanding it out. Perhaps you could try rubbing the parts out first to see if you even need to clear them. There are several good compounds out there. I happen to like "Diamond Cut" by Meguiers. Abrax mentioned a compound he uses. Check that out as well.

Lee

 

[A.R.K.]

As a side note:

Depending on the manufacturing process and resin used CF part you are clear coating may have different results from part to part (if made by different people).

If the part does NOT have a clear coat or a "gel coat" on it, I would use a adhesion promoter (bulldog ect, nasty stuff!) epoxy resins cure with a blush (long story...) that will still be in the weave depressions after "scuffing" the part and will cause the clear to fish eye.

 

[Abraxxas1127]

Napa used to carry a clear called "Cut-in Acrylic Clear", that was the only one I was aware of, I think it was lacquer though, lacquer is about the only clear they can put in a rattle-can... and lacquer is garbage by todays standards. There is no clear in a can that you want anywhere near your bike, or your expensive carbon parts. If you are going to do it, do it right... take it to a bodyshop for a professional job if you dont have the necessary equipment. Id rather you send the parts to me and I'll do it for you than see you take an aerosol to hundreds of dollars of hand-crafted carbon. Would you paint your bike with spraypaint?

Trust me on this, carbon isnt cheap and if it gets screwed up... its not going to be easily fixable.

Another option to try before you even consider paint is to get a good rubbing compound like Meguiars or 3M and try rubbing out the existing finish, chances are all the parts will shine up nicely as long as they're not scratched up.

 

[A.R.K.]

Most of the problems with CF parts is when they are made, the epoxy is not UV stable and yellows or flakes ect. after some years(also depeding on what was used). no clear coat will fix that but its a shot if you cant replace the part.

 

[Ten-6]

Most of the problems with CF parts is when they are made, the epoxy is not UV stable and yellows or flakes ect. after some years(also depeding on what was used). no clear coat will fix that but its a shot if you cant replace the part.

My Termi cans are already turning a greenish yellow,
I think I'll be looking for some TI replacements In a year or so.
You would think for the price they would last a little longer.

 

[Smeegle]

Napa used to carry a clear called "Cut-in Acrylic Clear", that was the only one I was aware of, I think it was lacquer though, lacquer is about the only clear they can put in a rattle-can... and lacquer is garbage by todays standards. There is no clear in a can that you want anywhere near your bike, or your expensive carbon parts. If you are going to do it, do it right... take it to a bodyshop for a professional job if you dont have the necessary equipment. Id rather you send the parts to me and I'll do it for you than see you take an aerosol to hundreds of dollars of hand-crafted carbon. Would you paint your bike with spraypaint?

Trust me on this, carbon isnt cheap and if it gets screwed up... its not going to be easily fixable.

Another option to try before you even consider paint is to get a good rubbing compound like Meguiars or 3M and try rubbing out the existing finish, chances are all the parts will shine up nicely as long as they're not scratched up.

Abra,

Yup, you make perfect sense. I think I'll try the Meguiars option first and see what it looks like. Worst case, I'll start visiting some autobody shops.

Thanks for your feedback, its much appreciated.

 

[Smeegle]

Anyone have any experience with this stuff?

http://www.alsacorp.com/products/killercans/sc/speedclear.htm

A buddy of mine just came across it recently and I thought I'd mention it. I'm wondering if its even worth experimenting with.....

Thanks in advance.

 

[lee]

I'm always on the lookout for a free lunch so I read up on the "Speed Clear". I think the idea of mixing the clear and the catalyst in the can is good. And the "High Pressure" is also a plus. They don't say anything about the spray nozzle and unles it puts out a nice fan shape it would be difficult to lay down nice even coats on your passes over the panel. It's $40.00 + shipping for one spray bomb that can be used only once. Personally I'd avoid it and take your parts to a body shop. For a little more money you'll get a pro job. On the other hand you can always give it a whirl. Worst case scenario is you'll have to sand it off and go to the body shop after all. who knows? It might be a good deal. Your $$$$.