[leetman]

Sup!

Got my first ticket on my 749. I live in Washington.

I was riding on a freeway and when I came to a heavily traffic laden section I pulled off to the right to ride the shoulder down.

After about 50 yards I got pulled over from an unmarked fuzz.

Cited me for breaking this statute:

RCW 46.61.125
Further limitations on driving to left of center of roadway.
(1) No vehicle shall be driven on the left side of the roadway under the following conditions:

(a) When approaching or upon the crest of a grade or a curve in the highway where the driver's view is obstructed within such distance as to create a hazard in the event other traffic might approach from the opposite direction;

(b) When approaching within one hundred feet of or traversing any intersection or railroad grade crossing;

(c) When the view is obstructed upon approaching within one hundred feet of any bridge, viaduct or tunnel;

(d) When a bicycle or pedestrian is within view of the driver and is approaching from the opposite direction, or is present, in the roadway, shoulder, or bicycle lane within a distance unsafe to the bicyclist or pedestrian due to the width or condition of the roadway, shoulder, or bicycle lane.

(2) The foregoing limitations shall not apply upon a one-way roadway, nor under the conditions described in RCW 46.61.100(1)(b), nor to the driver of a vehicle turning left into or from an alley, private road or driveway.


Question is this; this is clearly not the most relevant statue for my infraction. In fact it's not really relevant at all. My plans are to take it to court and try for dismissal because clearly I did not break the statute written on my ticket.

But, my buddy's opinion is that this is only a minor mistake and that the judge won't care which statute was written on the ticket, only that I was breaking the law. So he suggests just letting a traffic lawyer get it dismissed for me (which he always does, $350 btw =P)

Thoughts? Anybody argued a similar thing and won?

 

[Shrek]

What are the ramifications?? Money amount?? Demerit points?? Penalty??

I sense a tione of guilt in your writing.. IF it were cited for the CORRECT thing would you be bitching?? You were booked, you give the impression of doing 'something' wrong, just not that..

Did they catch you the past 40 times you were speeding or doing the wrong thing??

suck it up IMO.. unless it's a huge fine etc..


In accordance with the prophecy...


Mal

 

[zman]

Guilt....Innocence.... I guess if we use one type of logic we can surely see that we've gotten away with more than we've ever been charged with so "pay the man"....

But then again, the "man" has gotten away with much more than "he's" ever been charged with and that wont be ending anytime soon....

In other words, if you can get out of it so your insurance doesn't skyrocket and you can continue to ride with a happy heart, then go for it! Bottom line, your still going to contribute to the economy as a result of your mistake, and isn't that really what "they" are after. Your lawyer will make money, which he will get taxed on (maybe), and the city will get administration fees that will help to balance their bloated budgets. All in all .... capitalism at work, you gotta sit back and admire that if nothing else! :yo:

 

[Ten-6]

The officer clearly wrote the wrong code. Don't pay the fine and be done with it, that's the same as pleading guilty and will add points to your license along with the fee.

Go to your preliminary court date where you can speak with the prosecutor, don't be shy and don't let them intimidate you(but be polite). They're going to expect you to want a plea deal anyway so point out the code the officer wrote and describe what happened. More than likely the prosecutor will want to drop the charge just to help clear the docket, all that will entail will be you standing in front of the judge while he/she reads the case file then turns to the prosecutor and asks if he/she is willing to dismiss the charge.

Your friend is wrong, you cant be found guilty for an infraction that your charged with even though it's wrong just because you're "guilty of something". Don't worry, the officer can't change the ticket if he figured out he made a mistake, you can only be charged in(traffic) court with what you signed for.

PS: When you go to court take a print out or ever better an actual Washington state or local traffic code book with you so you can point out the code that was written. This will save time because the prosecutor will have to look up the code on the ticket to verify what you're saying, they're not going to just take your word for it.

 

[Armoredsquid]

Get your traffic lawyer to work on this. Don't screw around and end up with points. Pay him the $350 and sleep peacefully.

 

[leetman]

Thanks for the advice guys.

The ticket is only $124; and would be my first ticket on my driving record period, so I think I'm going to take the cheap route and attempt to fight this myself. I feel like I have a pretty strong case for dismissal.

 

[FlyerLen]

Change of heart?

Get your traffic lawyer to work on this. Don't screw around and end up with points. Pay him the $350 and sleep peacefully.

Squid,

Are you suggesting that someone actually hire and pay a scumbag lawyer to get them acquitted of a crime that they committed, just because of a technicality? Have you changed your opinion of defense lawyers? Are you and Elton now going to take long walks in the moonlight together? What a watershed moment toward world peace...

Cheers,
Lenny

 

[von1098]

If it's not written in the Book of traffic code, It's not an against the Laws. Make sure u don't see a law against going on the right side. If you admit to going right you admit to breaking the law. YOU MIGHT WANT TO ASK OUR RESIDENT LAWYER.(Elton) HIS RATES ARE AS FOLLOW.

1 question= Cf fender.
2 questions= Rear set.
3 or more = Umbrella Girl.

 

[Ten-6]

If it's not written in the Book of traffic code, It's not an against the Laws. Make sure u don't see a law against going on the right side. If you admit to going right you admit to breaking the law. YOU MIGHT WANT TO ASK OUR RESIDENT LAWYER.(Elton) HIS RATES ARE AS FOLLOW.

1 question= Cf fender.
2 questions= Rear set.
3 or more = Umbrella Girl.

It won't matter if there's a law against riding/driving on the berm(I'm sure there is), he was cited and signed a ticket for L.O.C(left of center). From the information he's giving us IMO the case will be thrown out.

 

[mrinflux]

I pulled off to the right to ride the shoulder. I got pulled over [and] cited for breaking this statute:

RCW 46.61.125 "Further limitations on driving to left of center of roadway."

This is clearly not the most relevant statue for my infraction. In fact it's not really relevant at all. My plans are to take it to court and try for dismissal because clearly I did not break the statute written on my ticket.

Thoughts?

leetman,

There is a legal doctrine in criminal law that says a defendant must be charged with the most specific offense. For example, here in Pennsylvania, there is a statute that criminalizes the "Knowing and Inteligent Possession of Narcotics." (Hereinafter, "K & I") Another section of our Crimes Code outlaws the, "Possession of a Small Amount of Marijuana for Personal Use." In cases where a person is arrested with a small amount of marijuana and charged only with "K & I," (rather than the more specific charge of, "Possession of a Small Amount of Marijuana"), I've had some success beating these cases arguing that the Prosecutor didn't charge the most specific offense.

But that's not your situation. As you pointed out, you were charged with the wrong offense rather than a more general offense that is also covered by a more specific statute. The "Most Specific Charge," doctrine does not apply in your case.

In criminal prosecutions, (which, generally speaking, includes traffic court), the Prosecution is free to amend the complaint up until the moment the trial begins. In fact, under some circumstances, the Prosecutor can amend the complaint after direct examination of a witness, so long as cross-examination has not commenced. If the amendment prejudices the defendant, defense counsel is entitled to a continuance in order to adequately prepare for the new and/or amended charges.

This means that if the District/Prosecuting Attorney realizes that the police officer wrote the wrong offense on the ticket, (a common occurance), the District Attorney could move to amend the complaint for the MV statute that prohibits driving in the shoulder. If the D/A amends the complaint, you might be able to get your case continued in order to prepare for the new/amended charges, (especially if you voice an intention to retain counsel!), but legally, you couldn't stop the D/A from amending for the proper charge, nor would the mis-charging be grounds for a dismissal.

Having said that, it doesn't mean that the Judge couldn't use the cop's sloppy police work as a reason to dismiss the ticket. Notwithstanding the State's right to amend the complaint, if the Judge likes you, (or conversely, dislikes the cop or the Prosecutor), the Judge could deny the D/A's motion to amend.

If the D/A doesn't realize the charging error and attempts to prove that you drove in the shoulder when in fact the ticket charges you with driving left of center then, after the Prosecution rested, you could ask for a, "Judgement of Acquittal," (a finding of "Not Guilty"), arguing that the Prosecution failed to prove their case because they charged one thing and proved another.

While this is a vaid defense under the law, it doesn't mean that a Judge wouldn't allow the Prosecutor to amend the complaint , (even at the end of the trial!), and then find you guilty. If that happened, you'd have no recourse but to appeal, which is a long and expenseive process.

I mean no offense, but this is not something you want to do without a lawyer. If your intent is to go it alone, you might as well save yourself the time and aggravation, and plead guilty. I'm not saying nobody has ever beaten a traffic ticket without a lawyer. What I am saying is that you're in way over your head. Get a lawyer if you want to fight this ticket.

Elton

 

[JohnnyDuc]

You ride bike and don't have a good lawyer, good luck.

Ride, be smart, and have a "Good" connected guy take care of the dirty work.

This is the USA baby......

 

[Armoredsquid]

Squid,

Are you suggesting that someone actually hire and pay a scumbag lawyer to get them acquitted of a crime that they committed, just because of a technicality? Have you changed your opinion of defense lawyers? Are you and Elton now going to take long walks in the moonlight together? What a watershed moment toward world peace...

Cheers,
Lenny

Poop stirrer

Oh no, Lenny, please don't misunderstand me. Use the right tool for the right job. A traffic specialist is what I'd call for. Never hire a scumbag lawyer because you'll be found guilty and have to pay the attorney fees. Also, not so much an acquittal as dropping of the charges. You'll still pay out some money, but it won't be punitive, just administrative.

As for long moonlit walks; sure, as long as his girlfriend chaperone's us.

 

[Armoredsquid]

leetman,

There is a legal doctrine in criminal law that says a defendant must be charged with the most specific offense. For example, here in Pennsylvania, there is a statute that criminalizes the "Knowing and Inteligent Possession of Narcotics." (Hereinafter, "K & I"
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
I mean no offense, but this is not something you want to do without a lawyer. If your intent is to go it alone, you might as well save yourself the time and aggravation, and plead guilty. I'm not saying nobody has ever beaten a traffic ticket without a lawyer. What I am saying is that you're in way over your head. Get a lawyer if you want to fight this ticket.

Elton

I said the same thing without the pomposity, in less than 23 words.

I guess in some way Elton had the same idea as I. Hmm. I hate you, Lenny.

 

[JohnnyDuc]

This is assinine. Do you value your license ? Are you willing to go to court with no representation ? I ONLY go to court with an attorney. One who knows all the States Attorney's, one who makes his living "Handling" these things. I say nothing, I get my license back, no punches, pay my fine (If applicable) and off I go. Let a lawyer handle the "technicality". God knows how Lucky I am to have a license, and without any "punches", clearly I wasn't the one responsible for that. Big or small, I let them handle the "talking"......

 

[FlyerLen]

Glad I could help!

Poop stirrer

:shitfan:

I guess in some way Elton had the same idea as I. Hmm. I hate you, Lenny.

 

[leetman]

Hey guys.

I’m following up on the results in case any of you are interested.

For all you haters, you are misinformed. You can totally fight a ticket by yourself, but it has to be an easy one. I got my ticket dismissed in less than 2 minutes with the judge. I essentially told him what I told you guys, that the officer cited me for the wrong statute. The judge said “yea, the ticket doesn’t make any sense, DISMISSED!”

Coincidentally I got my 2nd ticket ever only 3 weeks later in my car. 78 mph on the hwy with a 60 mph limit. Because my insurance rates won’t go up until I have two tickets on my record I’m going to attempt to fight this one myself too (this time with full understanding that I will probably lose), mainly for the learning experience. My plan is of course to request discovery of the officer’s written testimony, request the officer’s training history using his radar/laser gun, and request the last calibration dates of the unit. My court summons also says that I can subpoena a radar “expert” to examine during the case.

This should be fun

 

[von1098]

Hey guys.

I’m following up on the results in case any of you are interested.

For all you haters, you are misinformed. You can totally fight a ticket by yourself, but it has to be an easy one. I got my ticket dismissed in less than 2 minutes with the judge. I essentially told him what I told you guys, that the officer cited me for the wrong statute. The judge said “yea, the ticket doesn’t make any sense, DISMISSED!”

Coincidentally I got my 2nd ticket ever only 3 weeks later in my car. 78 mph on the hwy with a 60 mph limit. Because my insurance rates won’t go up until I have two tickets on my record I’m going to attempt to fight this one myself too (this time with full understanding that I will probably lose), mainly for the learning experience. My plan is of course to request discovery of the officer’s written testimony, request the officer’s training history using his radar/laser gun, and request the last calibration dates of the unit. My court summons also says that I can subpoena a radar “expert” to examine during the case.

This should be fun

:stickpoke
Yes it will- I bet they will try to make you foot the bill.

 

[JohnnyDuc]

Hey guys.

I’m following up on the results in case any of you are interested.

For all you haters, you are misinformed. You can totally fight a ticket by yourself, but it has to be an easy one. I got my ticket dismissed in less than 2 minutes with the judge. I essentially told him what I told you guys, that the officer cited me for the wrong statute. The judge said “yea, the ticket doesn’t make any sense, DISMISSED!”

Coincidentally I got my 2nd ticket ever only 3 weeks later in my car. 78 mph on the hwy with a 60 mph limit. Because my insurance rates won’t go up until I have two tickets on my record I’m going to attempt to fight this one myself too (this time with full understanding that I will probably lose), mainly for the learning experience. My plan is of course to request discovery of the officer’s written testimony, request the officer’s training history using his radar/laser gun, and request the last calibration dates of the unit. My court summons also says that I can subpoena a radar “expert” to examine during the case.

This should be fun

You must have a lot of time and not much money. Why waste energy when you can have someone do this for you. With a better track record, and who knows the system ??

 

[leetman]

Yea I don't have much money, and my amount of disposable time is about average.

Hiring a lawyer would cost $350, or I could spend 3 hours on the case myself.

I don't make nearly $100 an hour so that's a reason right there to spend my time on this case instead of other things.

& I find the subject to be interesting; I'm enjoying learning about the court system and I find the challenge of circumventing the law interesting.

 

[JohnnyDuc]

I hope things turn out OK for you. Good luck.