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Discussion Starter #1
First off, congrats on this great site… very informative.

I have been looking for a Superbike since I sold my old 996. I had been considering purchasing a 1098s but after seeing it in person I was not impressed with its design; I mean the bike is nice and all but to me it is just not what I would expect from an Italian manufacturer, especially one that used to house the designs of Massimo Tamburini. The Desmosedici RR is the perfect bike for me but since I am moving back to Florida I will be on a tight budget for some time, so for now the RR is out of the question.

In light of this I have decided to wait for the 1188R or whatever other R model Ducati produces. But recently, after I read about the upcoming Aprilia V4 200+hp Superbike I have been having my doubts. To be honest with you I know very little about V4 engines on motorcycles and I was wondering if any of the more technical savvy members could help me understand this type of engine a bit better in order for me to make the right choice based on a more educated opinion.

1. Can a big displacement 1200cc L-twin compete against a 1000cc V4?
2. How would the torque and horse power numbers compare?
3. Is the torque and power output of a V4 as linear as an L or V-twin or is it peaky as an I4?
4. Does the V4 have strong low end torque and power?

Thanks.
 

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I think Ducati would know best the answers to your questions. And to me, they've answered them already in Moto GP. They use an unbelievably powerful V-4 instead of a twin to compete at the highest level. My opinion is that the V-4 engine layout is, in pure performance, probably the most perfect configuration out there. I could be wrong, but you don't see them racing twins in Moto GP (at least at the highest level). Ducati sticks with the L twin design I think mostly out of tradition more than any other reason. I'd like to be wrong, but pure raw numbers were not what led me to buy my 1098- it was a passion. So beautiful, so powerful, so much heritage and so much mystique. How can you go wrong? They're f----n amazing!!!
 

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Twins are great for bikes ridden by riders that aren't MotoGP racers.

Yes, the Desmosedici engine is incredible. It also needs to be ridden in a particular manner and RPM range to realize its full potential. Same with the V5 and I4 engines in MotoGP bikes.

For the real world, a twin layout is a great solution. It provides great torque and adequate power, especially at lower RPMs, which is where they spend most of their time.
 

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You want to know the difference? Swing your leg over a "V Max" and whack it. You'll find out right now.
 

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The Outlaw said:
So what bike did you have? Did you sell the 999s for the 996 base? If you don't like the stying 1098 but like the twins look at the RC51. Or goback to the 999s you owned.
You didn't just say that did you? An RC-51 over a 1098? You've got to be kidding.
 

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Mcgician said:
You didn't just say that did you? An RC-51 over a 1098? You've got to be kidding.
Of course that's not what I think or want to ride. But this guys def does not seem to like the 1098. Two threads now both putting the bike down.
 

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The Outlaw said:
Of course that's not what I think or want to ride. But this guys def does not seem to like the 1098. Two threads now both putting the bike down.
The answer to his question is a 1098. The power output is amazing for a v-twin. I can get on the gas so much earlier than any in-line 4, coming out of a corner. The torque this bike has is astounding considering the high rpm pull it has. There is no jap liter bike with any advantage that 99% of mortals like us will be able to use.

For whatever reason, he doesn't like the 1098. There are a slew of other choices out there. From what I've seen they all take the back seat to the Duc. That beng said, I wish I didn't have to wait 3-4 weeks for a part ordered from Ducati.
 
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I was running agaist an R1 a couple of days ago straight line stuff on the way home from work. Anyhow I hit the limiter in second and (listening to that multi scream beside me put me off a bit) lost a bit of ground. When I shifted into 3rd I gave it a fistfull to get back in it low and behold the front came up and I was going passed him on one wheel at f23k knows how fast. ( no time to look down but I'm tippin' around 80mph + )
If you want to wait for the arrival of an 1188R that is a rumour so far it's your choice but I'm tellin' ya now this thing has heaps and I mean heaps of power, it's bloody spooky riding it up high in the revs. And talking about revs,,, wow can it rev out. I can't wait to see what Bayliss can do on it next year.
Oh but you'll be waiting to see what's coming out next.
 

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Fireblade84 said:
I had been considering purchasing a 1098s but after seeing it in person I was not impressed with its design; I mean the bike is nice and all but to me it is just not what I would expect from an Italian manufacturer, especially one that used to house the designs of Massimo Tamburini.
You should probably consider an MV Agusta. The S model has more low end torque but less horse power than the R and 312 models.

The probelm with waiting for a bike to be release (V4 Aprilia) is that you really have no idea how long you'll be awaiting. It's one thing if it's a factory confirmed 2008 model with a delivery sometime in 2008/2009 but it's another thing when rumor say it will be coming next year.
 

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Depends what you want from a bike. Cylinders + cc = easist way to get more power but not for making a bike easy to ride. Have a look @ the past few years and see how many manifacturers make Ducati twin copies. For getting out there and running up a mountain road I dont think you can go past a twin. Then again there is plenty to choose from depends what you want out of a bike and you only know that.
Cheers
Stoz
PS the 1098 has more than enough grunt to put a stain in the average riders pants try pinning it in 2nd and you will find that out.
 

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The MV is a good bike- plenty of power. A recent convert had a Repsol CBR1000 and wanted to ride my 1098. We traded for about 125 miles. He loved the 1098. He test rode an MV and was impressed with the motor but he said the rest of the bike wasn't that impressive for $23k. He added the suspension was way too stiff for the street but woudl be nice on a smooth race track. He bought a 1098.
 

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I have both the 1098 and an F4S and their pros & cons to both. It's like saying which child do you love more. ;)

The 1098 turns in quicker (although my S wheel are heavier than the R's) but the MV has much better front and feedback. As for low end grunt, I think the S model MV has almost as much grunt as the 1098 (which is really saying a lot for a 4 cyclinder) because of it's abrupt fuel delivery off idle. From what I've heard, the F4R and 312 don't have that kick.

Fireblade84, just wasn't feeling the 1098 so the MV would be the logical choice of you're really into Tamburini designs.
 

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Crimson Guard said:
I have both the 1098 and an F4S and their pros & cons to both. It's like saying which child do you love more. ;)

The 1098 turns in quicker (although my S wheel are heavier than the R's) but the MV has much better front and feedback. As for low end grunt, I think the S model MV has almost as much grunt as the 1098 (which is really saying a lot for a 4 cyclinder) because of it's abrupt fuel delivery off idle. From what I've heard, the F4R and 312 don't have that kick.

Fireblade84, just wasn't feeling the 1098 so the MV would be the logical choice of you're really into Tamburini designs.
HMMMM my R has way more kick than the S that I test rode.
Although there isn't a lot happening below 5K.
 

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Ducati seem to have better after sales service.
Not to take anything away from Aprilia,but I know a guy in Perth that has had trouble with his RSV R.
Just be sure what you are getting into,the first of any model is always a gamble.
 

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Sure the Jap liter bikes are really fast. The 4 cylinder machines have really great top end speed. But a Duc is a Duc. Anyone can drop $ 10,000 and get a R-1 or a GSX-R. The 1098 is VERY FAST. It's also a twin, and you can't beat the sound, Torque, and handling. I was on the track riding with a guy on a stock 749. He was FAST, he could ride . He passed me like I was standing still. I passed guys on R-1's and GSX-R 750's. I passed guys on 1098's while on a 999s. The moral of the story is, if YOU can ride you will be fast. Straight line stuff is cool I guess: get a zx-14 or a Busa. But as far as handling, speed, balance, looks and quality get a DUC...............
 

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the ride or the rider

JohnnyDuc said:
If you can ride you will be fast.
Ain't that the truth! I watched a smack talkin' 999 rider get smoked in the twisties by a guy on a gold wing!

I ride with a guy who rides an old 35hp BMW boxer. I long since gave up trying to keep up with him in the twisties. It takes him forever to get up to speed, but once he's movin', nobody can keep his line. He's mad fast on that old boxer.

A great rider on a mediocre bike will always outride a mediocre rider on a great bike.

Elton
 

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A buddy of mine who doesn't ride any more because of wife/kids etc. is the sickest rider I have ever seen. He doesn't know V-twin, 4-cyl, 2-stroke, 4-stroke...and he doesn't care. He can whip whatever he touches...the guy could easily be on the racetrack kicking ass. (verified by his instructors at a track day) He'll get in a 500hp RWD car, cold tires, never driven it before...and whip it around corners sideways without spinning out. He's just got this feel and connection with motorsports...

He can probably take my bike and ride circles around me, despite the fact that I'm not too bad myself for being new AND I'm familiar with my bike. I'll develop those skills, but some people just HAVE those skills and some can adapt better than others. I completely agree that the rider has so much to do with it...verified by driving my own cars too.
 

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mrinflux said:
A great rider on a mediocre bike will always outride a mediocre rider on a great bike.

Elton
Elton,
when you say mediocre rider on a great bike. You talking bout me. :laughing:

My 1st track day, the track Marshall pulled me over, says, "man your fast for your 1st track day, on the best bike, but your lines suck."
I told him I race MX on a CR 500. Slide it in, pivit, and shoot.
He says" ride the track like im on a 125, lots of corner speed."
I just did not get it even fallowing his lines for 2 laps, so he convinces me to let him ride me aroun on my 1098. We do 2 laps almost running the same speed as the group I was running with alone! Holly $hit!
(wish I had photos of that) Man was he a good rider.
What can I learn with poop in my pants? Dont ride 2 up, if you are on back!
 

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tight tuck

Stimacsays said:
I just did not get it, even following his lines for 2 laps.
Stimac,

Tuck those arms in; you'll go faster!

Elton
 
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