[rubbish]

This Honda is clearly not a production bike as of yet. When there are 5 of them sitting in different colors at my local Honda dealership, then we can discuss it being a production bike. The likelihood it will be made for US DOT/Emissions laws AND be cheap enough to have one sitting on a showroom floor, is pretty remote.

There weren't 5 Superleggeras or D16's at any 1 dealers (or at least most dealerships) when those came out. They'll have however many Honda gives them, or however many there will be pre-ordered, because just like with any other special edition and expensive model they will most likely sell before they're even made. Production bike doesn't mean there's a whole bunch sitting around and that you can afford...production bikes are made in larger number than just a few, and are available for ANYONE in the public population to buy, so long as they have the means to do it. You can't buy an RCV214 because there are only 4 of them (2 for Marquez, 2 for Pedrosa), so those are not production bikes, but if these production bikes come in at $10 million a piece and they make only 100 of them for the public, then it's still a production bike, despite what you may think of it.

 

[219R]

Still looking for those "like minded" industry folks.................. :shrug: Maybe I am turning over the wrong rocks.

 

[Apollo2]

"Production bike" means just two things. First and foremost, there are enough of them produced to be homologated in whatever class in whatever organization(s) they might be used to race. Second, they are produced from a set of drawings and all of the parts (or at least the major assemblies) have part numbers and can (allegedly) be ordered from a catalog.

Non-production bikes have (some, many, most, all of?) their bits made one-off as needed, generally in a machine shop, often tweaking the design (for improvement or to test a theory) with successive iterations of the part.

One example of a production bike HERE.

 

[Moly]

Antiquated design?? The D(no S!)16RR was conceived in 2004 & based upon the GP6 Racebike and, allowing for tooling, testing etc etc, rolled out in 2008...it had, amongst lots of other things, forks which were unavailable to anybody but race teams...I would hardly say this was antiquated!! Ducati were the only company which had the balls to attempt something like this...up to now that is!!
Whatever the reason Honda is doing this for they're to be applauded for doing so...I think it looks amazing, no doubt goes like fuck & for those lucky enough to throw their leg over 1 it'll be the bollocks...antiquated my arse!!

 

[219R]

Looks like I'm right yet again.

Really?? Maybe some of your "PM Folks" would agree with that statement.. Where are those folks anyway????

 

[Tuned]

Production bike doesn't mean there's a whole bunch sitting around and that you can afford...production bikes are made in larger number than just a few, and are available for ANYONE in the public population to buy, so long as they have the means to do it.

Production means = mass produced.

Mass produced = MANY MORE then 100 units made.

Mass produced = walk into your dealer, sit on one and say "I'll take it", which is something here in So Cal you could do with the DS16RR AND Superleggera as I've seen both just sitting on dealer's showroom floors.

Furthermore, there are MANY Ex-HRC race bikes hanging out in rich people's houses, where do you think they all go? The difference here is that, this new Honda these rich people can ride to starbucks. It's very tempting for anyone with half a million dollars in their pocket.

 

[Tuned]

Antiquated design?? The D(no S!)16RR was conceived in 2004 & based upon the GP6 Racebike

No ride aids like the race bike, entirely different suspension components, odd-ball wheel configuration to fix some inherent issues with the chassis (which were a problem in the race bike). Plus, when it was released, MotoGP had already moved onto the 800cc days, so the engine was antiquated compared to the MotoGP machines of the era.

Basically, Ducati took and old design, already knowing they were moving away from it and capitalized on selling it to the public. Nothing wrong with that at all, it was very smart and bravo for them actually turning it into a production bike, unlike what Honda will be doing.

 

[219R]

^^^ Oh, that's right,,,,, folks with money are always on your "shit on" list, kinda like "Hillbillies", "Southerners", and your other racist's, ethnic, and bigoted statements.

 

[Moly]

Conceived in 2004...it was current & future design, certainly not old!! Moto GP wasn't going to 800cc's when this was dreamt up!

 

[rubbish]

"Production bike" means just two things. First and foremost, there are enough of them produced to be homologated in whatever class in whatever organization(s) they might be used to race. Second, they are produced from a set of drawings and all of the parts (or at least the major assemblies) have part numbers and can (allegedly) be ordered from a catalog.

Well actually the first one is not true. There have been production bikes that were produced in lower quantities than needed for homologation for any of the major classes. KTM RC8 Red Bull edition for example, the Superleggera, D16RR, etc. Not to mention not every bike is used for racing.

Production means = mass produced.

Mass produced = MANY MORE then 100 units made.

Mass produced = walk into your dealer, sit on one and say "I'll take it", which is something here in So Cal you could do with the DS16RR AND Superleggera as I've seen both just sitting on dealer's showroom floors.

Yeah you just made up your own guidelines...did you pull 100 out of your ass?

In any case, same will be true with this new Honda. They will get to the dealers. They haven't made them all yet, that's why you're not seeing any. It's not like bikes reach the dealer floors 2 weeks after they've been announced. Get real dude!

 

[Apollo2]

IIRC (and according to the link I provided earlier) AMA homologation is 50 units. Though IIRC, some organization states 30 units. The D16RR was 1500 units. I'll take a wild guess that at LEAST fifty of the KTM RC8 Red Bull edition, and Superleggera were produced.

Tuned's definition for "mass produced" is just fine, I guess. But the discussion was not about mass production. It was simply "production."

No, not every bike is used for racing. But, come on, we ARE talking about GP bikes that are converted to production bikes here. Nobody is going to road race a Confederate Hellcat and so whether they make five or fifty is a big fat DON'T CARE for EVERYONE.

 

[Apollo2]

Just wondering if Tuned is another alias of the guy that posts all those stick and ball links.
A troll is a troll.

 

[Tuned]

IIRC (and according to the link I provided earlier) AMA homologation is 50 units. Though IIRC, some organization states 30 units. The D16RR was 1500 units. I'll take a wild guess that at LEAST fifty of the KTM RC8 Red Bull edition, and Superleggera were produced.

AMA Homologation has been the most lax of any other series. 100 motorcycles need to be produced per year, which is why Buell could race a factory bike in the AMA, but could only race a production bike in World Superbikes.

The critical aspects of AMA homologation includes the following things:

- The motorcycles are to be sold for everyday use

- Motorcycles submitted for American SuperBike homologation approval may not exceed a retail price of $40,000 U.S.

- Motorcycles submitted for Daytona SportBike and SuperSport homologation approval may not exceed a retail price of $20,000 U.S.

World Superbike Homologation is even stricter:

- 125 units prior to the season beginning
- An additional 250 units after the first season
- An additional 1000 units after the second season

- The maximum retail price for Superbike 1000 class Homologation is 40.000 Euro.

- The maximum retail price for Superstock 1000 class Homologation machine is 33.000 Euro.

- The maximum retail price for Supersport & Superstock 600 class machine is 20.000 Euro.

Tuned's definition for "mass produced" is just fine, I guess. But the discussion was not about mass production. It was simply "production."

If I make 20 cupcakes, I'm not "producing" them, I'm "making" them. If I make 200 cupcakes, that's more along the lines of "production" because it requires multiple batches.

My point is, Honda has always been talking about a "production" MotoGP replica, not a few one-off, half-million dollar motorcycles.

Edit: They stated countless times in multiple articles, they have absolutely no interest in doing what Ducati did with the DS16RR.

 

[219R]

Just wondering if Tuned is another alias of the guy that posts all those stick and ball links.
A troll is a troll.

well, .....perhaps a cupcake maker!!

 

[219R]

Btw .....:shrug:

 

[freighttrain]

If I make 20 cupcakes, I'm not "producing" them, I'm "making" them. If I make 200 cupcakes, that's more along the lines of "production" because it requires multiple batches.

My point is, Honda has always been talking about a "production" MotoGP replica, not a few one-off, half-million dollar motorcycles.

I do not know too much about cupcakes, but..
In my line of work? We will "make" one or two.. Test out the engineering involved as compared to the cost.. Let the bean counters and/or Producers have a look at the results as compared to the cost..
Then a choice is made.
When a "green" light is then given? We go in to what is considered "production" for us.. And that number can be anywhere from 10-100? Usually our production numbers are between 10-30.. And each one consists of different set-ups and "batches".

We can argue about the definition of words, but we do not know the "context" in to which these type of situations are being handled.
Perhaps, Honda has a few of these left over now that there is a new "S" model and the '14 model is competitively obsolete?
They may also go in to production to make a few more if the feedback and interest is good?
Perhaps the production is done on the lot of them?
Perhaps Honda still plan on, or already have a working prototype for the street version already?
Perhaps that bike will go in to production?
This is Honda, and I do not work there.. So I do not have any friggin' idea of what the heck is going on behind their closed doors..
Without that specific info?
Who's to say who is wrong or right? Even the link provided a few pages back mentioned that "they" (Australian Mag.) were "told" that the pics and bike shown in Europe was indeed a Production model, and not a Prototype?
Again, who is right or wrong?
I only used my example to show that set ups for production are not always in great numbers, at times.. It signifies repetition.. Even if the volume of bikes is as smaller number than some consider "production". Seems more about semantics and a difference in the word by definition.
To which, without context or agenda? It is hard to be sure in my eyes.

As far as the AMA, and getting low production numbers "allowed" in AMA?
Look back to the mid-'90's.. I still do not believe that enough VR1000's were ever built.. And Chris Carr getting pole position on a race-track in the middle of a parking lot in Pomona is something that I won't soon forget.
Talk about crazy ass race tracks? That one was a joke, but another thread I suppose.

 

[Tuned]

Everything you said is true!

The problem is, everyone is picking on me for stating that Honda has shelved their V4 production motorcycle project. From where I'm coming from, that data looks to be 100% accurate as the bike shown looks identical to the RCV1000R with mirrors and lights. Plus, the pricing estimates are half a million dollars, making it most likely, a RCV1000R with mirrors, lights and emissions regulation. Not really a production V4 motorcycle.

 

[219R]

"Why's everyone picking on me?" The Coasters, "Poison Ivy".

 

[rubbish]

If I make 20 cupcakes, I'm not "producing" them, I'm "making" them. If I make 200 cupcakes, that's more along the lines of "production" because it requires multiple batches.

LOL biggest load of crap I've heard all day!! You don't have the slightest clue about manufacturing! It's amazing how separated you are from reality...

 

[freighttrain]

Everything you said is true!

The problem is, everyone is picking on me for stating that Honda has shelved their V4 production motorcycle project. From where I'm coming from, that data looks to be 100% accurate as the bike shown looks identical to the RCV1000R with mirrors and lights. Plus, the pricing estimates are half a million dollars, making it most likely, a RCV1000R with mirrors, lights and emissions regulation. Not really a production V4 motorcycle.

But, alas.. We are not sure.. Are we?
What looks like the same bike, may not be?
Perhaps, the bike shown in Europe is different then the high priced left-over "1000r's" from this past season?
There in lies the Rub...
You are assuming that there is only 1 bike.. And we have seen it. But, we do not know as of yet. You may be right? Or perhaps, Honda has something going on that we are unaware of?

Remember, it wasn't that long ago that some were thinking that Ducati should chuck the 90 degree motor out the window.. Then, months later.. We found out that the new 1000cc HRC motor for GP was 90 degrees? Right under our noses for some time? Shocked some, as I was surprised myself..

We do not know.. And assuming can lead to speculation, but it is only that.

Tye, you are speculating.. As are we..
But you choice of vocabulary at times leads towards your posts trying to come off as facts? To which, they are not.. Not yet anyhow.

You mentioned a few posts ago..
"See.. I was right!"

Which, in turn, led to others saying different.. Or simply trying to remind you that no matter how you spin it? No one is right or wrong as of yet.
Including yourself..

We wait.. And I for one look forward to the day that Honda does bring out a V-4 super bike.. After all? I have a Honda now.. And do not mind it one bit..